engine swaps?

just trying to get something thats been building of my shoulders:-
i obviously understand the attraction of a mk1 GTi(had one)but for those of us that have started with a smaller base car as a project and are contemplating a swap whats your opinions on engine choice.

Heres my (somewhat opinionated lol)views:-

8v gti- whats the point buy a standard one really
16vgti- definately my choice for driving, keeping some kind of feel for originality/experience with what feels like the car vw should have made(oettinger versions aside)
G60-another kind of old skool swap with a pleasing tune to boot, maybe a bit limited for tuning and hard to compare a tuned charger engine to an na engine(turbo a 8v/16v  :wink: )
VR6-pointless swap loads of major work just to wreck the handling with its fat ass heavyness way out front but nice soundtrack
20vTs-takes summit away from the soul of the car imo, i always imagined my ultimate mk1 as being a tuned na engine with instant grunt and no crazy traits of running a 4000 brake turbo which jumps lanes when its finally wound up the turbo(i know a standard 20vTs nothing like this im running one albeit in the mk4)and i know its easy enough to bang a 180 20vT and then tune it but just cant see myself in a mk1 with one fitted



just interested in opinions really and expect loads of different ones :mrgreen:

G60 for me all the way or a 16v on carbs

im thinkning about lightly modded 16v with diy ECU and bike throttle bodies for my next upgrade...so if any1s got a 16v engine they wana get rid of..... :wink:

matt - dump the ecu and bang on some DCOE40's

nah i got bike carbs on my 1.3 so i wana ava go with the bike throttle bodies nxt..besides u can build the whole system including the mapplable ecu and bike throttle bodies for not much more than a gud set of 45's.

Yeah that diy ECU would be fun

yeh, i do love old 45's but id like to learn bout mapping ECUs and injection systems now..moving with the times and all that…any one know of a good place to pick up a 2.0 16v engine in the north of england? yorkshire area?

16v on carbs all the way baby!

I am currently collecting the bits to build one for my Mk1.
Got a set of CBR 1000 carbs to experiment with though (only ?1 on Ebay!).
Combine these with a DIY ignition system (Mega jolt) and should see some reasonable power and a very driveable machine!

hi al, think i spoke to u a while back when i was getting my carbs sorted. havnt had the 1.3 on the road for a month and im already thiknin bout putting sumthing biger in! how hard was it to change ur engine mount to fit the 1.8 in? insted of buyin a conversion manifold for 16v engine do you think i could just get a custom down pipe made and use the origonal manifold?

Hi Matt,

I do recall chatting to you online somewhere before…

Engine mount is easy. Mine was made doubly easy as I was given an extra mount already cut from a car, so all I had to do was get it tacked into place (My old one is still in the original location!).
If you are cutting your old one out to re-use, just be careful not to do too much butchering to the chassis leg, although it can be plated up afterwards…

As for the manifold - There is no way I am buying a mk1 16v specific one - I am going to modify the existing one.

the existing manifild(16v i take it)seriously interferes with the gear linkage, the expansion joints in the mani literally sit where you want to be for first and reverse, saying that its do-able as thats what we done in my cousins mk1.

as for modding the original down pipe:-it should have a kind of s-shape to it when looked at side on, if you chop it just after the expansion joint and again just after the bends at the other end. Then chop out the middle section of both pieces youve just cut out should leave you with basically four bits:- the expansion joint, two bends roughly about 90 degrees, and also the end collector part.
 Now youve got the four bits you can basically chop four straight sections out of your old pipework and use these straight sections to extend down from the expansion joint tack on the bends and extend again along to the collector. Voila modded exhaust at zero cost

this is a very simplified description but you get the jist, you do have to take the steering rack, anti roll bar and gear linkage into consideration plus you also have the absolute guarantee that a welded downpipe is going to crack and need rewelded, your gear linkage is going to be seriously bent out of shape just to get it to work at all and yes youve maybe got it done for nowt(if you own a welding set) but the hassles definately not worth it, get an ashley and some diesel mounts :wink: defo the second cheapest option after 'blue peter'ing your exhaust up but worth it in the long run

Id say go for the G60 you will not be disappointed with the power you can get out of the G60 lump in a lite weight MK1 you will be able to keep up with most things on the road….
Trust me I`ve got one…..      :twisted:  :twisted:

Hey G9DUB - what power is your 60 tuned to at the moment?

G60 going in mine soon with a mk3 diesel box and diff with approx 190bhp. I want to see what that feels like in a mk1 before going any further but I am thinking around 220 may be good.

Went for this as you can get far more power and torque from a G60 than a 2.0 16v but I admit I think this engine would possibly be the crowning glory for a mk1. Not a fan of the 20vt myself but I understand why people like them.

[VR6-pointless swap loads of major work just to wreck the handling with its fat ass heavyness way out front but nice soundtrack

Im fitting a 2.8 vr6 into my brother-inlaws 1100 mk1 golf at the mo your right in what you say about it being a major job as for its weight you'd be surprised how compact and light these r6 units are i lifted the donor engine of its subframe myself  8O

Having gone down the 2.0L 16v route I'm not convinced it keeps the feeling of the original, its drives totally differently.  I say that not as a bad thing, I f-ing love it . Its smoother at low revs and around town/commuting but kicks in when you give it some, whereas the 8V was more urgent low down.

I do now see of course why people go for a tuned 8v 2.0L, having had a ride in Mr Vs beasty Its definitly a phat grin maker!  8)  :mrgreen:

I have finally started at my mk1 striped out racer
I'm going with tuned 2.0l valver with bike 46mm throttle bodies and pug ecu, cheap and efective!
I'l get some pics of the golf up soon

 


And some fresh pics of all the bits and bobs i have for the conversion

RSADDO said

[VR6-pointless swap loads of major work just to wreck the handling with its fat ass heavyness way out front but nice soundtrack

Im fitting a 2.8 vr6 into my brother-inlaws 1100 mk1 golf at the mo your right in what you say about it being a major job as for its weight you'd be surprised how compact and light these r6 units are i lifted the donor engine of its subframe myself  8O

I am thinking about a VR6 conversion too. The thing about 1.8 16V, G60 or 2.0 8v (3A short block) conversions, or tuning the existing motor (ie inlet/exhaust, cam, throttle body), is that you're adding power at higher RPM. There's nothing wrong with this, and it makes the car more and more 'sporty' to drive.

A longer stroke will give more torque, so a tall block 2.0 would make sense, but then you're swapping many components for an 11% gain. What you really need is more capacity, which means more cylinders. So VR6 seems sensible in this respect. This way, it changes the character of the car and makes it much easier to drive it quicker. Also it would make it more refined in the process!

I'd be interested to know if anyone has comparitive weights for a 1.8 8V and VR6 engine. I imagine you can do a little to ease the weight gain, for example maybe swapping the alternator and starter motor to lightweight items? And situating the battery in the boot. Also, if the VR6 has it, remove the air con and power steering pumps and brackets.

Even if the car ends up being better in a straight line and worse at corners, that seems ideal for drag racing.

If you are serious about the VR6 conversion, take a look at this thread:

http://vwcaddyforum.co…d.php?t=1342&page=4&pp=20

Its on the Caddy forum and its 10 pages long (and will probably grow more…), it discusses other aspects of Alistair's conversion, for example 280mm brakes, Mk3 dash and pedal box.

matt-mk1 said

im thinkning about lightly modded 16v with diy ECU and bike throttle bodies for my next upgrade…so if any1s got a 16v engine they wana get rid of….. :wink:

let me think… 16v engine.. megasquirt… gsxr750 Tb's….

just like…

this…

cut down inlet manifold


throttle bodies and some rubber


this is the route ill be looking to go come the end of the month.. as im buying megasquirt.. so then its a case of build up the management.. get the sensors all ready.. bolt on my TB's and off we go

then i might look to add EDIS ford coilpacks.

8O

 8)  

hi all, i'm new here..

fortunatley my father has a mk1 1979..
from the all engines above.. which would suit mk1 easily?? without any major changes..
i'm new to this golf engine.. and i need to learn a lot..

basically, what's the difference between GTI and G60 engine??
if i'm looking for power without sacrifice handling, which engine will suit the requirements best??
could you give me more details (and horse power pls) between these engines:
1.8 GTI 8v
1.8 GTI 16v and
1.8 G60 /1.8T


thanks all