205 GTI vs MK1 Golf GTI

Golf wins the end.

It's a mini adventure….. not!


















Ok recently on the forum there have been a few comparisons between the 2 legends…….. some would say it is unfair to run the 2 cars head to head because the 205 came nearly a decade later.

So what? The MK1 Golf is still the daddy. 8)  The 205 may be the quicker car but what?s more fun to drive on the limit? :dontknow:

IMO the golf. Having driven both cars in standard and non standard form I rate the golf higher in the terms of a true driver?s car.

Why……. PREDICTABILTY.

To sum the legendary 205 up in one word, my word would have to be "sketchy".
Ok so they are fast…. so what. When you?ve got one pinned on the limit and you may think you're in control…..the torsion bar is preloading and reaching it?s limit?? just when you think it's all gravy….. screech! That?s right the torsion bar has become un-sprung and your kissing the tail good bye. Why is this fun…. errrr it's not, in fact it's scary.

Vice versa the golf is fluid, predictable and forgiving. I don't need to go into detail on how the golfs drives because we drive them…we know.
Dynamically the 205 may be faster but the golf is more organic…. a real drivers car.  8)

Karl your Crazy  8)

But yes your right the Golf is a better drive . But the 1.9 Gti will wop the pants off the Mk1 in a straight line   8O

Does the Pug have an owners club ?

Cheers……

chudd said

Karl your Crazy  8)

But yes your right the Golf is a better drive . But the 1.9 Gti will wop the pants off the Mk1 in a straight line   8O

Does the Pug have an owners club ?

Cheers……

Some web links for your viewing pleasure! :wink:

http://www.gtiowners.co.uk/

http://www.ukmotorsport.com/uk_car_clubs.html#v

I did see one a while ago dedicated to the 205 but can't find it now!

when you think about it peugeot must have been looking at the mk1 and based its gti on that, then volkswagen go and make the mk2 at the same point the little pug is launched……..(a good turn of luck for the pug)
Volkswagen lost out big time with the bigger,heavier more expensive golf. I think if i was in the market for a new GTI in 1985 i would have bought the pug no question.
like you kins i've had a few of both cars……
2 x 1.9 205 GTIs
1 x 1.6 205 GTI

2 x 1.6 mk1 GTIs
4 x 1.8 MK1 GTIs

I think the fact i've had more Golfs and still have 1 (now buying another!) must mean i find the golf better in every way.
If volkswagen would have made the MK1 all the way upto 1992 like the 205 i think the car of the decade would have been the golf not the pug

Well said Kins, Good read!.. I've never driven a Pug and don't plan to, they just don't do anything for me!

I've only recently started driving my mk1.. brought it without ever driving a VW, I was looking for a project car and when I saw this one looking VERY sad for itself I just had to bring it back to life and it's former glory!

and to say it's a good drive is an understatement! even with tappet's sounding like the irish river dance the engine feels strong and pulls better than any other car I've owned! the gearbox (FD) is perfect for the engine and instantly in the power when changing up… all the stories about poor brakes.. well, they require some effort but not as bad as my old Mk1 Escort with drums all round  8O and it stops when you really need it to!

It's just the whole character of the Mk1 that makes it stand out from everything!

well said all. I was around when the GTI started everything off and nothing can take the golf's place. It was bound to be imitated (and bettered) eventually, but like the chap on highlander said "there can be only one"!

There are loads of 205 1.6 GTIs in stock hatch. The Golf holds its own with them quite happily! It's even keeping the 106s honest, which are even further ahead than the 205. My entire racing campaign at the moment is centred around proving the Mk1 is still the daddy.

I blame the channel tunnel for letting all them tinny little french things through,a brick layer could sort out the problem 8)
Long live the golf mk1
Bert

Wait for it…… http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=47208

Bro's got a 205, I've Got Mk1 Golf's

I think the comments above are about right - 205's in a straight line easy but in the bends well I'm not so sure.  keith's racing experience says a lot about the Mk1's handling.

But - we are talking about standard cars here - not MK1's with 20VT conversions or 205 valver's

1.9 205
1.8 MK1 Golf

Also need to take into account the 205 has 10 years of development over the Mk1…

My mate is older than me and can remeber two guys in his village had a 205 and a mk1 golf - the golf eat him every time - it was a like a village soap opera…

the 205 bloke then got the 1.9 when it came out - big expectations of beating the mk1 - i didn't happen the mk1 beat him - but the margin was narrower…

The cars in stock hatch are just that, stock. The only permitted mods are basic suspension e.g. single adjustable dampers and springs, engine blueprinting and a 0.5mm rebore. Other than that, they are their road going equivalents, so no valvers or 20VTs.

When I first started the season, everyone was saying the Mk1 was a no goer, too old, not a match for the more nimble french stuff. Since my latest outing at Lydden, they have actually acknowledged the Mk1 and admitted they were wrong!

The Mk1 kicks bottom basically!

Having owned both I prefer the Golf

The 205 you can't really relax in it , its always on edge ( at least that what it felt like to me ) Great when your in the mood but a pain otherwise

The Golf is everythinmg I want in a car , speedy little rollerskate , thrill per second b road racer , respectable about town and reasonable motorway cruiser  

I loved the pug but you can't do anything in the engine bay I couldnt even get my hand down the side :mrgreen:

The golf is a JOY by comparison to work on  :wink:

The 1.9 205 GTI was the first car I drove where I thought… "Too much power!"

Fun, but a sting in the tail! The Golf isn't quite so much of a point to point tool, but it's safer to drive.

Cheers,

Drew.

And have you seen how 205's survive accidents , thats because they dont . On limit handling is awful with little to no feedback as to where the grip runs out . And they smell of garlic . Although i'm building a late model mk1 2.0l i still think the early 1600cc mk1 is the best all round car ever to leave wolfsburg

LOL @ all the 205 vs Mk1 stuff.I've just joined this site as a friend & myself are just rebuilding a rather tatty Y reg Mk1 golf.The thing is I own 3 205 GTI's as well & whilst a direct comparison is rather pointless as a mk1 being so much older than a pug cannot really compare to the later 205.
The 3 205's I have are:
a 1986 1.9 GTI Grp A spec rally car.
a 1987 Mi-16v 1.9 GTI.
a 1989 1.9 8V.
Whilst this is my first golf I've owned,I have driven loads over the years & have to say Mk1's are the best of the golf bunch IMO.I mean anything after Mk2 is like ?!?!?! why?
 But the 205 GTI hasnt got awful on limit handling (Unless the beam is worn out),it does indeed suffer from lift off oversteer but needs to be provoked in a way that a good driver should know better than to do unless they want to.Besides lift off oversteer is actually one of the things I love about the Pug,it enables you to drift the car sweet as 9/10 times its really progressive & can be caught easy.Driving our Y reg project Golf was an eye opener after the pugs.You can tell the car is very sturdy(although the dashboard & trim like many cars of its age is hard too get used to),but the lack of feeling in the steering & suspension took a lot of getting used too.As said the 205 always feels focused & can be a pain on long hauls as comfort was sacrificed to get the true GTI drive.Under the bonnet is a nightmare on a 205,but saying that it doesnt take much more than an hour to get the engine out so not really a problem.Build quality seems better on the golf although the rust is a bloody nightmare on ours.Pugs being galvanised since around 1986 seems to help sometimes (Not always though)
 Oh & as for what someone said about the 205 not withstanding accident damage too well,I see rally ones rolled/off road into ditches etc etc & seem to think they come out as well as almost anything else would.

Ok I've typed enough,need to scan for sale section for more Mk1 bits now :mrgreen:

Welcome aboard Ghost! Nice to get the other side of the story from a 205 owner who knows his stuff! Feel free to post us some pics of your MK1 project tho :wink:

One of my mates has a 205 GTI and a MK3 VR6.  He says he would rather go out in the VR6 any day but its a bit juicy   I have a 306 as a runabout and love the handling.  Are the 205s much worse? Only ever driven a 1.6 GTI that was a bit twisted from an accedient!

Sorry ghostcav dident mean to tread on your toes .I have driven both cars my mate owned a 205 1.9 gti which he let me drive and to be honest i dident like it ,maybe his rear beam was worn but it felt loose and unpredictable when pushed . He loved it and kept it for ages then replaced it with a 309 brooklands (i think) and that was good i liked that car, so i guess it just comes down to a personal thing . Surley the fact that we can compare a mk1 with a car ten years younger shows what a brilliant car it was and still is IMO, after all its taken Vw another 4 generations of the model to relight the gti fire . Is the fact that the two cars handle so differently the very reason a 205 makes a better rally car ? would of though lift off oversteer would be required for the loose stuff . Good luck with the mk1 , another saved .

Don't worry no toes stepped on here
 Yeah agreed the mk1 was a case of getting it right first time & in a way I guess the 205 refined what VW had started(Not meaning there better or worse than the golf) the 205 just being newer obviously helps.But not forgetting the other "rivals" of the day like the XR2/XR31,nova SR & dare I say the MG metro which never came close to the golf,infact the whole problem is the fact that the 205 did match up to it & some would say surpass it.But with the competiton so tight between the two it seems to just come down to personal taste.I even heard an argument once that the VW golf was just a improved version of what some people say was the original the lotus sunbeam. :dontknow:  So maybe it will never be settled. 8O  

 As for rallying the 205's easy to drift charector does come in handy both on the gravel & the tarmac & by the amount of them still on the rally circuit seems to prove how it does suit them (They still have a 205 GTI only rally series!) Don't see many/any Golfs these days,I can understand that for Mk1's as maybe the value of them puts people off but there used to be loads of Mk2's around :dontknow:
 As for our mk1,think we are going to need a lotta luck on this one

I have a frend who is a commited 205 gti owner.It seems that modifying these cars is alot more straight forward than on mk1s.many suspension and engine mods can be carried over from other cars in the citroen/peugeot range with a minimum of modification.
as for my frends car, that has undergone an engine swap and now has a 2litre 16v citroen engine and front suspension from a 307 i think.As far as driving the thing, these mods seem to have accentuated the twitchy nature of these cars and while it is undeniably fast it also feels rather unpredictable.