Steering geometry

Whilst rebuilding the suspension / steering on my Campaign,  I have found that the O/S wheel is on pretty much full lock whilst the N/S is not far off straight. This is based on fitting the track rods into the hub assembly as they stand.

I have rebuilt the rack with new track rods and seemingly followed the instructions as to the screwing in of the track rods  and measuring the centre of the rack etc.

I have also counted (when removing the old ends) the number of turns to wind the track rod ends off/on the shafts .

So the pics show the problem that no matter the number of corrective turns on the track rod ends will this be sufficient to square the tracking up.

So I need to go back to basics and guess the rack is wrong somehow - I measured the ends of the track rods to the rack ends, thinking they were even distanced.

Is there a specific point to measure from when fitting turn track rods ?

Any advice gratefully received 

Hmmmmm

As you say probably worth goping back to the start and beginning again.

Do you have the haynes manual? It shows how to set up a new rack?

First thing to do is ensure the rack is centered before starting. I did that by counting the number of turns from full lock to full lock and then centering based on that.

After that there are two measurements from the different parts of the end of the rack to where the ends of the tie rods screw onto.

Once that is set there is then a measurement to the centre of the tie rod end.

Volkswagen Workshop Service and Repair Manuals > Golf Mk1 > Running gear | Steering | Repairing steering gear | Renewing or repairing steering box

That might help if you don't have the haynes manual.

We've done this about 4 times now and although the manual gives the measurements we have always found that it still needs tweaking when done.

Don#t forget to check you have the correct tie rods as I think they are different lengths on each side!

If you've managed to get them mixed up it may account for what you are seeing.

Ian

Thanks for the detailed reply Ian

Yes I've got the Haynes manual and followed the steps (or so I thought). From memory I measured an equal distance from the ends of the steering rack casing to the ends of the tie-rods, but something back of my mind now says that's probably not right🤔

I don't have the steering wheel on at present so guess that's one think I need to slip back on for now to count the turns etc.

The old track rods were of equal length and I replaced them as too much play in the ball joints (plus may as well replace as inexpensive) and car in full strip down and access good.

As there's only a couple of cable ties to sacrifice to push the rubber boots away, I'll do this and measure the new tie rods - sure they were of equal sided length too.

One of the measurements from the rack is from the end. the other is from a bit further in. Check the diagrams closely.

Just don't ask how i know…………  

Ian

Yes that's what I'm thinking that's at back of my mind. 

I've misread the measurement guide I think, only using the rack casing ends as a reference point.

I was particular in counting the turns on each side to undue the track rod ends and made a note - thus when counting the turns to refit the new ones I knew something not right as should really fall back into place correct.

Thanks again - I'll go back to Mr Haynes and recheck
the measurements. 👍

Gone and unscrewed both track rods.Noticed they are slightly different to what the Haynes manual shows and the ball joint housing is 11mm shorter (see pic 1 - the original been the cleaner one) even though overall it is the same size as the the original, just got a longer shaft to where the spanner slots are .

 So without the track rods the centre of the rack should be 69mm from rack casing on N/S and 69mm on O/S but measured inboard to the Inner part of  flange. So far so good, but taking measurement on mine now -  on the o/s to the end of the rack thread to the inner flange reads as 69mm, I end up with 85mm from the rack thread end to the rack casing on the N/S - diff of 16mm (see pic 2) which is substantial and route of my problems.

I have adjusted the Haynes measurements by adding 11 mm to the 69mm to get 80mm if I'm using the spanner slot section as the start point.
So what is the issue - it's the same rack and I counted the turns to undo the old track rod ends - refitting on the same number of turns - one wheel pointing left , the other right I can't get my head round what is wrong with the rack if I  to adhere to Mr Hsyrns's measurements - Help !!!!🤔

I've had a go at this a couple of times and had no real trouble with it. I think and I say think that where you are doing wrong is the centreing of the rack, the measurements should be equal,  the 69mm is for setting your track rods.
I could be wrong.

I would suggest the following to center the rack.

Turn the wheel clockwise until it hits the stop and mark it at 12:00 mark the tape Right.
Turn the wheel Counter clock wise until it hits the stop and you will mark the wheel at 12:00 mark the tape Left

Count the turns that it takes to move the wheel clockwise from full left stop to the full right stop.

Divide that number by 2 and move the wheel clockwise to the result.  This should now make the rack centered and you then mark that at 12:00 and mark the tape full centered. … You have to know that the rack is at center before you try to adjust the tracking rods. You have to have a known starting point.

You could go one step further and after attaching the tracking rods take the spindle and center it to the car so that it is running true….You can then see if your rods need to be more in or more out per side verifying that the wheel is still in the marked Center.  This is just my red-necked way of doing things…..It is more easy on my Cabriolets as they have separate inner, and outer tracking rods and they are easier to adjust specially if you slather a good bit of never-seize on the inside of the tracking rods threads..
 

Hi Cedar 

Thanks for your reply - it's a funny one - it might me really obvious problem but damned if I know 😂

Mr Haynes suggests the measurement of 69mm without the track rods fitted, and then ensure the same measurements ensues once the rods are screwed on.

It's the same rack, I counted the turns to unscrew track rod ends and counted them back on - puzzled.com !!! 🤔

Been there done that, but all it takes is a different manufacturer of tracking rods to screw that up…I had a bad outer tracking rod, and it was totally different than the other as far as length…. My old one had a zirc fitting, the new one didn't.

I can't find my Haynes manual, I got the equal length idea from an Autodata manual I was given and it does seem logical.
Just for info a mistake I made was adjusting the rack,( it wasn't new), on the bench in the straight ahead position, they wear more in that spot so if you take up any slack there as soon as you turn it will bind, I bought a new rack in the end.

Mmmmm - a new rack could be the solution but I can't suss why it was fine before and now an issue.

I'll try the steering wheel positioning that Briano suggested 

Hi Adolf - I wouldn't buy a new rack, mine was rattling over rough roads which there are plenty of around here.
I've found my Haynes and if you look it does say have the two measurements equal or they put it 'have protrusion of rack equal'.
Try it, I reckon that will solve it.

Originally (tintops at least) had one fixed non adjustable track rod, so that measurement was fixed, so as long as the rack was in the right place you only had to worry about one side in theory..

As soon as I saw that one side was fixed on my 81 Diesel Bunny/Golf…I found out that I could get the parts for the other side and replace the solid one piece.  The outers wear more than the inners, and are way easier to replace.  You can find the Cabriolets have the inners, and outers as 2 pieces.  Just use never-sieze on the inside threads of the outer tracking rod, and they are a relative easy thing to replace, I also smear the spindle hole with it as well.

Tried the steering wheel - 4 turns lock to lock as good as - so turned it twice back.

Measured rack ends and showing 80mm each more or less - this equals what Mr Haynes says at 69mm plus the 11mm I'm adjusting for the different ball joint housing on the track rods. 

So I need to make sure the track rods are screwed on evenly both sides together with the rod ends and it should theoretically balance the steering 

You need to get the measurement 'a' in Haynes Fig 10.26 spot on equal first, near enough won't be good enough.
Set your tie rods as they say to 379mm, screw them on and set 'a' and 'b' to 69mm, set up your tracking using the right hand rod only.

Or make sure your camber is correct, steering rack is centralised and steering wheel on straight, down load the 1/2 price voucher from national tyres and take it to National tyres and they will set up the tracking for £15…

Other places also available for tracking…    

I've measured the end of the steering rack screw threads (ends) and to a fixed point on the body. I have 30mm on O/S and almost 40mm on N/S. The rack has been centralised with 80mm correctly measured each side.

The rack is bolted onto the car correctly - guess only the 1 position as the hooped bolt goes over the rack at the appointed place next to the UJ.

I guess circa 8/9mm  is not insurmountable to loose between both track rods and track rod ends. 

Unfortunately I can't take it anywhere as it's engineless and on its side - but eventually will have to be done professionally to get it spot on.

The plot thickens 🤔🤔😡

Centred the rack, screwed on track rods ensuring correct distance to rack casings (as per Haynes manual)

Screwed track rod ends on (Number of turns as originally removed from car).

Both sides approx 75mm from ball joint taper entering hub  assembly ?? Far too much to adjust on either track rods or rod ends 🤔

Anyone got a sledgehammer??? !!!