My 1983 Golf CL AFH conversion

borednow said

Should have gone twin carbs with mine…

What rear mount have you gone with?

Ian

I used the factory 1.1 liter rear mount. I had to notch it to fit but it works. Trans mount is custom made by a guy in The Netherlands. Webers are great but have been a pain to tune since I had to set my own timing curve too. Timing effects these carbs in a huge way, 2 degrees and it falls on it's face…

OK, so I don't have any video just yet, today was a good day. I've been fiddling with timing and jetting for over a year and finally hit the mark… At least the small green circle but damn close. I'm running dual 40 Weber 151s with a MSD 6AL-2 Programmable ignition. The MSD box is capable of controlling a factory hall style VW distributor without the need for the hall amp (little seven pin flat, black bit normally mounted on a heat sink). It's expensive about $390US and a bit overkill for a 1.4 liter. It's also quite a  capable bit and easy to use, if you know your business, which I don't. Well not completely, I'm learning at a fast rate. These AFH motors do not need a lot of advance, at least not at high revs, believe me I've tried about 100 different timing setups. I do have a slight lean spot just off idle but it's very minor and I have some more jets to test before I post my setup.

Anyway, pulled some timing out of the top end today while I was doing a bit of testing and it woke up the dragon… I was extremely concerned because I still have the brakes meant for a 1 liter 50hp motor…

With luck I will post a video from the street and maybe one from the dyno very soon, stay tuned.

 

Sounds like your making great progress, and immense patience in setting it up  

Also sounds like time for a brake upgrade  

Matt

Interesting stuff.

Can't wait to see it in action.

Ian

Here's a little taste. Haven't had a chance to get to the dyno yet. This run was me testing a different set of emulsion tubes which I didn't like much, they made flatspots worse, the other tubes run a bit better and smoother.

Test run with new timing map 1,4L AFH 16V dual 40 Weber 151 - YouTube

Started to get the new motor together. This was the first AFH motor that I leaned out and had a piston score the cylinder wall. It's been bored over to 77mm. I also have a crank out of an AEE motor freshly polished and a set of connecting rods from a BCB. When it's all together I should have a 1620cc motor with 10.8:1 compression. It won't be until spring next year before I can get it all together, traveling for work and buying a house and moving will slow things down. I went ahead and painted the block with Hammerite silver.

…still learning by breaking stuff. Bent another piston skirt due to detonation under a high rpm/high load condition. Cause: way to much timing advance. In this lesson I discovered the timing reference on the factory AFH distributor is not what I thought it was.

  If you line up all the TDC marks on the front of the motor you would typically line up the distributor rotor with the hash mark on the edge of the distributor body (sorry no pics, pull the cap off and you'll see what I mean). This works fine on the original computer controlled setup… In my setup with all marks aligned I had 60 degrees of total timing advance. My ignition system is able to retard 25 of that total at idle and slope it back in however I see fit. Problem is that 35 degrees of advance at idle, which explains why my starter and flywheel failed earlier this year.

So now I spun the distributor full retarded. After counting the teeth on the crank timing belt pulley (24, I have all the plastic belt covers removed) I determined one tooth is 15 degrees (24*15=360). So now, full retarded, I have 15 degrees of advance at idle using the beveled tooth on the pulley and cast mark on the front main seal cover as a reference. I slope in another 18 degrees for 33 degrees advance total at 3400 rpm. I could bring in more timing sooner but the engine is already hurt and trying to keep it alive for another week or two.

I'm still working (stalled) on building a 1.6 stroker AFH… But the 3rd AFH motor showed up today and will get swapped in late next month. I did acquire a knock sensor computer (KS4 from Phormula in the UK)  to wire up and slave into my ignition system MAP input. I'll be using the 0-5V output of the KS4 to drive the 0-5V ignition input which is normally used to read boost pressure and pull timing based off a map I create. The car is ridiculously fast now even with the engine damaged, I plan to upgrade the brake system while the motor is out this time.

So the saga continues…


 

Yup, read it, didn't understand a word!

Still quick though? Good!

Yup bigger brakes are useful.  

Good luck mate.  

borednow said

Yup, read it, didn't understand a word!




 

Brilliant, there myself quite often.

So the weather is going really bad now, moved into our new house, time to get to it. Today I started stripping the next motor, tomorrow I want to separate it from the gearbox and have a look at the clutch and rear main seal. It's getting colder over the next week but the garage is bearable.

New motor is in and running well. I drilled additional progression holes in the carbs so I have to adjust the idle circuit jetting when the weather gets a bit warmer. Currentlt -7C, feels like -18… no beuno.

Here's a vid
https://youtu.be/QBHRJfhuz_s

I also added a stand alone knock sensor from Phormula UK, cleaned up some of the wiring and moved my vacuum reservoir…

Short vid attached… Pull toward the end is second gear 50kmh to over 190kmh. Everything runs pretty well. I'll be off to the dyno when I get back from travelling for work. And then this motor and trans will be pulled and sold to make room for the refurb'd stuff. I'll be parting with several gearboxes as well, some better than others…
I'll post that stuff in the proper forum later this summer.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujj85gsb5pq49ia/test1_Medium.mp4?dl=0

nedrager said

Short vid attached… Pull toward the end is second gear 50kmh to over 190kmh. Everything runs pretty well. I'll be off to the dyno when I get back from travelling for work. And then this motor and trans will be pulled and sold to make room for the refurb'd stuff. I'll be parting with several gearboxes as well, some better than others…
I'll post that stuff in the proper forum later this summer.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujj85gsb5pq49ia/test1_Medium.mp4?dl=0

Love the sound of the little lump  

Is the engine/cam etc standard?
I guess you would quickly get in the 120-130 horsepower area with a good streetcam  

What is the redline currently?

Hurtig said

Love the sound of the little lump  

Is the engine/cam etc standard?
I guess you would quickly get in the 120-130 horsepower area with a good streetcam  

What is the redline currently?

Motor and cams are standard bits. I'm off to the dyno soon enough but I think I may have 120+ at the wheel already. Redline at the moment is set to 7500.

Don't know if I like the new wheels…

 

Finally got to the dyno: (Linked a video done by a friend of mine)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlc5wVWdTw0&list=WL

Don't know what kind of dyno it is, but it made 142BHp. Peak torque at 5300rpm, peak HP at 7300. I was really blown away since I got this motor and trans for 300 euro and haven't don't anything internally to it. Power seemed to level out after 6500, could be the head flow maxing out or my chokes. I'm going to try my 36mm chokes soon, currently running 34s. That'll be the last thing I try before I start the 1620cc build.

You must be pleased mate!

Mine made a touch more but the entire engine had been rebuilt.

Mine also levelled out at 6500 revs so it must be top horses at that point, probably due to head restrictions as you say.

It's enough though!

Enjoy  

Ian

In a quest to improve the throttle response I hooked up a MAP sensor to my ignition system. It has the option to run a boost retard curve in addition to a static timing curve. In my case I use the MAP sensor to read pressure closer to ambient and retard timing. So at cruise, low load, situations I have the ignition advance a bit hotter than before. As soon as I roll on the power the MAP sensor sees the load and the timing retards accordingly. If you look as a modern fuel injection timing map, even on NA motors, the timing retards under high load. Seat of the pants dyno says it winds up quicker with less advance as does the violet wheel spin that turns into uncontrollable wheel hop. It would spin the tires on a roll before but no it's a bit scary how fast the motor revs out. I'm currently pulling about 8 degrees under full load for a total of 27 degrees advance. It slope back up to 34 as the engine load decreases. This made a marked increase in drivability but there's still some carby issues…

I've also ordered  a set of 45s, 152G 5 hole versions meant for a Ford 2 liter ZETEC 16V. The 3 hole 40s, mine modded to 4 hole, still give lean stumbles in the transition phase. The 5 hole Webers were brought about to correct this very issue. Plus, the 40s are maxed out on this engine. Flow numbers suggest it flows like it's a 2 liter. I'm running 34 mm chokes, tried the 36mm but the vacuum signal is a bit weak. The step down from 40 to 36 in the carb doesn't put a very strong vacuum signal on the jets and makes it react sluggishly. I'll be running 36 mm in the 45s, but the step down from 45 to 36 gives a better vacuum signal, thanks Mr. Bernoulli. I'll get maybe 20% more air through the 45s with 36mm chokes over what the 40s will do with the same 36s, additionally the vacuum signal will be much stronger on the jets to help them react a bit crisper. Hopefully I can swap the jets over and be near where I want to be with the mixtures then it's back to the dyno for one last run before I swap in the fresh motor.

Took the Gold RH wheels off, they're available if someone wants them. Also this motor and carbs will be available soon with the matching gearbox.

Here's the graphs and a pic from the first dyno runs. Just got the bigger carbs today, more to follow on that later…



Yellow is torque in NM
Blue is horsepower in kW
Red is crank horsepower, using the correction factor in Green.