Rear Brakes. Discs or drums?

What are you guys running? and how do you find it?

I ran discs, they were ok, but with an empty car they were a little too good  

if you rear bias valve works ok, you have good tyres and some wheight in the back then discs will be fine, BUT for the love of god dont fit them if you are still running 239mm discs up front    as then your rears will be nearly the same size as the fronts, not a wise idea.

I run discs on mine but had to fit an adjustable bias valve to tone them down, I run 280 4pot calipers on the the fronts too, you really don't need discs on the rear but aesthetically they look much nicer then drums.

basically if you care about looks, and dont mind a bit of hassle to get it working, fit discs. Otherwise stick to drums, they're more than good enough

Drums it is then!

Rear disks every time for me.

Both our mk1's have 256mm up front and MK2/Mk3 discs on the rear and the 22.5mm master cyl / servo.

My tin top has the rear compensator - I have never had any problems with over braking or rear lockup with this setup - the brakes are progressive and really responsive.

The mrs cabby has the restrictors in the engine bay with the same setup and again she has no problems with rear lock up or over braking.

I fitted both systems myself, including renewing all the lines in Copper/nickel, with new/recon calipers/disks etc all round - can never be too careful with brakes !!

Oh and they look much better as well !!
And they adjust properly, the drum auto adjusters are awful and cause the pedal throw to get longer and longer…

Is it a case of swapping rear stub axles?

Drizz said

Is it a case of swapping rear stub axles?

Kind of, yo do need other things aswell to do the job.

Obviously callipers, discs and pads but you will also need Scirocco 16V handbrake cables, a few clips and cable ties, oh, and new brake flexi's. I went for a complete goodrich set.

The brakes are now as good as anything else I've owned and driven. I do however have a 16V servo and master cylinder to aid things more.

the cabby works with just the bay compensators as its much heavier at the back, with the tintop you'll need additional bias adjustment provided by the beam mounted adjuster thingy as its much lighter.

on my cab i used a mk2 bias valve as i had one to hand, the old one was siezed and mk1 adjusters are expensive!

I run rear discs on both my mk1`s,using 256`s up front.Never had any problems with overbraking on the back and the handbrake is really smooth and works a treat.Just be sure u have a good rear compensator valve thats adjusted right if u run rear discs! Dont think i would ever go back to drums!

allsorts said

Drizz said

Is it a case of swapping rear stub axles?

Kind of, yo do need other things aswell to do the job.

Obviously callipers, discs and pads

From a mk3??

allsorts said

 oh, and new brake flexi's. I went for a complete goodrich set.

For a Mk3 too or the rocco?

rear discs you can get from a MK2, scirocco 16v, MK3 or even a MK4 if you buy conversion hoses.

The hose kit you need is a MK1 Golf with MK2/4 rear flexi hoses.  You may get away with a MK2 golf GTI set of hoses, but I'm noit sure if the front/beam ones are exactly the same length.

What about calipers? What car?

Ideally mk3 golf or mk4 golf ones although the mk4 ones are trickier to do, handbrake cables are too short to do it really.   Personally i'd get stub axles an calipers from a mk3 golf, mk2 discs and pads and scirocco 16v cables.  Like rubjonny i don't know whether the mk2 goodridge kit would work, I built my own flexys using euroquip stuff from rally design.

everything i said goes for calipers
The carriers from any of the above cars should also work, pretty sure MK4 carriers bolt up but not 100% sure.  Personlly I'd stick to MK3 calipers & carriers, no need to spend extra on conversion hoses and they're just as good as MK4.

MK4 calipers fit exactly the same in terms of handbrake mechanism, its just the hoses you need to get a conversion kit for.

Ideally you want pre-88 MK2 Golf calipers as these are the same as the Scirocco 16v the scirocco cables are designed for. the post 88 MK2, MK3 and MK4 are a different design with a larger piston and have the handbeake lever on the opposite side.

This can lead to the cables not quite being long enough, unless you mount them upside down. though not everyone has a problem, seems so far it was just me that had to chop 10mm off the metal guide tubes under the car to get cables to fit MK3 calipers

right lets clear a few bits up as reading this it could end up with folks having the wrong bits…

for the discs, just order mk2 gti rear discs, they are a stock size and 226mm iirc, as fitted to mk2 gtis, mk3 gtis. (for the reccord mk4 discs WILL NOT work unless you use the 6n2 stub axel and bearing seat up as the mk4 onwards cars ie late 90s models and on use a seperate disc and bearing set up where as mk2/3 etc use a combined set up)

calipers - late mk3 are best of the easy fit as they are all internal mech and dont sieze up as bad (but if left unused can still stick) earlier mk3 and mk2 post 88 have an external handbrake mech and do lock up if un used or used in winter

pre 88 mk2 calipers mount the other way and again will lock up if not cleaned and looked after

mk4 calipers - by far the best option imo, made from alu so lighter and less likley to jam up due to corrosion (it but can happen due to the different metals in contact with each other buit unless they are left in the damp unused for a few years they will be fine) to fit mk4 calipers though you will need the goodridge conversion hoses, these are ?28 from C&N and noirmally there are some on ebay from them too for a quid or so less, or you can buy a full conversion kit from them to do the front hoses and the 4 rear ones all to braided.

if running mk2 /3 calipers then the normal mk2 16v braided hose kit is fine iirc as the rear caliper uses a normal style screw in holes and not a banjo one as per the mk4 caliper.

hand brake cables - GSF rocco 16v cables. I have these on my mk1 running mk4 calipers and they are fine, no need to mount the caliper up side down as has been said, mine are the right way with the bleed nipple at the top job done, they have had quite a bit of the adjustment used up inside but they are fine and if you so wish will happly lock the wheels at 40mph if you pull on the handbrake!

carriers - as before just get mk2 / mk3 gti carriers, nice and easy to find as there are always folks breaking them, order new mounting bolts form vw for a couple of quid and order new boost for the slide pins, these are from the mk4 golf (I can get the part number in a weeks time when I am back in the uk but I do know they are actually a audi part number from the b6/b7 A4 and start 8E0 (how sad am I  :cry: ) if you ask the dealer for mk2 16v boots for the carriers he will look at you gone out and then say they are no longer made! but the ones for the mk3 which is the same carrier have been replced by the audi ones, trust me they work as they are on mine  :wink:

you will also need to shorten the rear brake pipes as the metal pipe goes all the way to the back of the drum, but this is too long with the discs and will need about 3-4" removing from it and the end re flairing with a new nut on it to do a proper job as you cant really just curl the excess pipe out of the way…

the rear axel will need a small part of the end of the beam cutting to allow acess to the carrier bolt, it does no harm to the axel but will require paining again to stop it rusting once donw and dont leave any sharp edges or corners for stress fractures to start from. there is a guide in the faq bit showing where to remove the excess metal.

other than using new bolts from VW there isnt really anything else to worry about, but please note its not a cheap conversion, budget on about ?300 - ?400 inc buying the calipers, discs, bearings stub axels, hand brake cables, and new bolts etc, plus you will need brake pads and a caliper winding tool to push the pistons back in, then you need to set the handbrake right when you install the new pads. (stand on the brake 5 - 10 times to reset the pads and then while holding the brake down pull up on the hand brake 3 or 4 times and then do its again 3 or so times with out your foor on the brake, other wise it can upset the piston winding out and give a poor handbrake and in balance.

just to add, mk3 and mk4 discs cant be used, mainly because they are 5x100, rather than anything to do with how they mount

mk4 callipers are just as prone to seizing up as MK3 items, just because they are alloy doesn't mean they wont corrode. the parts that corrode and seize on the MK3 callipers will corrode and seize just as much on the MK4 callipers, as the mechs are identical.  The only difference is the material they are made of.

MK4s do have problems with the rear callipers sticking, they also have a greater issue with sheared off bleed nipples, which the MK2/3 callipers don't suffer from nearly as much. this is down to the calliper and nipple being made of different materials.  It is true they are lighter, but there isn't that much in it.

in short, only bother with the MK4s if they come up cheap, otherwise MK3 more than good enough, plus no extra expense for the conversion hoses.

edit: as for the hose kit, as you say the rear hoses are fine in a MK2 kit, its the front & beam ones I'm worried about.

yeah forgot that the mk3 was 5 stud    egnore that one then.

also watch out as the G60 from what I have seen is has a bigger rear discs but I havent confirmed this on etka,

on the calipers its horses for corses, I much prefer the mk4 and provided you look after them and crack them every so often wheres the issue? but either way im not sure I would bother on my next car,

G60 uses the same rear setup, unless its syncro. but then it'll never bolt up as it all completly different!

never said there was an issue with the MK4s, just saying that the only thing they offer over MK3s is they're lighter. For your average daily driver this isnt going to effect anything, MK3s are more than good enough and widely available.  Just trying to correct the internet myth that MK4 calipers are way better than MK3s and never go wrong, which is not the case

Main thing is MK4s ask a premium over the MK3s as buyers/sellers catch on to the consensus that they are 'better'.  If you can find a set cheap then by all means go for them, just bear in mind the extra you'll have to spend on the conversion hoses to make them fit.

At the end of the day, go for what comes up at a good price. As long as they are at least MK3 then its all good!  Just make sure the bleed nipples free off ok, the piston moves when you work the handbrake lever and the slider pins arnt all corroded.

Im seeing a guy on thursday thats breaking a Mk3 so if its 4 stud i might alleviate him of his rear hubs. Cheers guys