Bad hot start
Posted
#1671230
(In Topic #241162)

Settling In

Lately I'm having problems starting from a hot start on my Mk1 1.8i DX, specifically after having been stopped for approximately 1 hour. When cold it starts perfectly and when hot if I turn it off and start it it also works fine but the problem is when it has been stopped for a while, I hit the starter and it takes 3/4 seconds to start when before it did it instantly. The injectors are new, the pump and filter too and the car has the cambelt well done as well as the CO and timing. The spark plugs are also new. Could it be a fuel accumulator problem? Is there a way to check it? thank you so much!!
Posted

Local Hero

This will eliminate a few things.
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They all start with GOOD Grounds.
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They all start with GOOD Grounds.
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Posted
Local Hero

1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 317,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
Posted
Local Hero

Bad hot start

Picture of my shot accumulator when petrol leaked out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 317,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
Posted

Settling In

mark1gls said
![]()
Picture of my shot accumulator when petrol leaked out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you so much, I will check it. In no case should fuel come out? neither cold nor hot? Could this be the cause of my bad start?
Posted
Local Hero

The job of the accumulator is hold the fuel pressure when you switch the car off, there's a big spring and metal plate with a rubber seal around it inside the accumulator, then the cars running the fuel pressure opens the accumulator then when you switch the car off the accumulator closes and hold the fuel pressure in the fuel lines.
When the cars hot the fuel is already in the lines and under pressure, when the cars cold the 5th injector sprays fuel in, to start the car when the cars hot and the accumulator is shot you will need to keep cranking the engine to build up the fuel pressure.

1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 317,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
Posted
Local Hero

Bosch K-Jetronic (CIS) explained - YouTube
1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 317,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
Posted

Settling In

mark1gls said
No fuel should come out when either hot or cold.
The job of the accumulator is hold the fuel pressure when you switch the car off, there's a big spring and metal plate with a rubber seal around it inside the accumulator, then the cars running the fuel pressure opens the accumulator then when you switch the car off the accumulator closes and hold the fuel pressure in the fuel lines.
When the cars hot the fuel is already in the lines and under pressure, when the cars cold the 5th injector sprays fuel in, to start the car when the cars hot and the accumulator is shot you will need to keep cranking the engine to build up the fuel pressure.![]()
New Bosch accumulator fitted but it still takes a long time to start when it has been stopped for a while

Any idea where else I can look?
Posted
Local Hero

If you did not change the main fuel pump you can buy just the non return valve.
Part number here as showing out of stock..
https://www.classic-vw.co.uk/fuel-pump-check-valve-for-gti-893906093-13453-p.asp
A fuel pressure test may be the only way to work out what’s happening when you switch the engine off?
1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 317,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
Posted

Settling In

mark1gls said
Did you change the main fuel pump underneath the car as that has a non return valve fitted to it?
If you did not change the main fuel pump you can buy just the non return valve.
Part number here as showing out of stock..
https://www.classic-vw.co.uk/fuel-pump-check-valve-for-gti-893906093-13453-p.asp
A fuel pressure test may be the only way to work out what’s happening when you switch the engine off?
Thank you Mark,
I changed it this year for a Hella one.. I guess it will be fine, I will check what you say
Posted
Local Hero

1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 317,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.
Posted

Settling In

mark1gls said
If it's been changed then I'm sure it will be fine as a new pump should come with the non return valve already screwed into the end of the fuel pump, it was when I fitted one of those £30 fuel pumps from eBay earlier this year.
Yes correct, the non return valve is new
Posted

Old Timer

It'll allow you to narrow things down to specific areas so you're not spending time checking (or changing out) everything just in case.
In very broad terms some of the common hot start problems are related to the below, these're not necessarily linked to one another, hence a gauge will rule some in or out allowing you to move on to where the problem more likely is -
Your Cold Start Valve (5th injector) may be either leaking or operating all the time.
Your fuel pump pressure is out… I realise you've a fresh one fitted, but being new doesn't always mean it's working correctly.
The Air Flow Sensor plate's resting position is out.
Insufficient residual pressure. The accumulator / fuel pump non return valve that you've already considered would be in this catagory, but even they are OK, there's still other causes of low residual pressure.
Something as simple as fuel leaks / dodgy injectors, I think you've an earlier post asking about a strong fuel smell below the car.
Don't assume it's what you originally thought (or could even be something in addition to it).
Posted

Life Member




In the end I went to a local Bosch specialist after a few other firms had looked at it and failed.
Turned out a new fuel pump and WUR sorted the issue. Hasn't returned since!! 🤞🤞🤞
Posted

Settling In

Posted

Old Timer

That's in part what it's supposed to do in certain circumstances, allow excess in tank pressure (and presumably fuel fumes) to escape via the gravity valve.
Got me thinking it's doing that for a reason and I was wondering is there an excess of tank pressure causing fuel flow issues in some conditions… for example after a hot run along with the tank at a certain capacity ie. full / empty, or somewhere specific in between?
Try opening the fuel filler cap / releasing tank pressure after a run, then attempt the hot start to see if it makes a difference?
Posted

Settling In

New BOSCH fuel pump installed and problem is solved, HELLA pump lasted 1 year and 1000 miles..
I have checked everything in absolutely detail and there is no leak, as I said the smell came from the breather pipe but I have a very sensitive sense of smell, maybe it is normal, other people don't smell it. I will also review what you say

Thank you all so much for the help!
Posted

Old Timer

It was a new pump I think you said? Lot of counterfeit stuff about, nigh on impossible to distinguish from the real deal too.
Alternately and irregardless of whether or not it was genuine, it's still possible something accelerated it's demise… would keep an eye on things in case you're looking for yet another pump after the next 1000 miles, hopefully not.
Is your tank the original or has it also been replaced, may be worth while checking the gravity valve etc. just as precaution to ensure all is 100%
An excess of pressure / vacuum in it should be something the pump is capable of dealing with normally, but then again a dodgy one may not've been able to cope, putting it under strain / premature failure.
Posted

Settling In

Thanks!
Posted
Settled In

mine has the same issue so going to try a pump too.
Can you post a link for the pump you bought please?
thanks
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