Skip navigation

Alternator belt replacement - lower timing belt cover

Post

Back to the top
So, I set about getting the alternator belt replaced.
unfortunately I came to a full stop, when I had to slacken the 6mm torx, holding the alternator in place.
The head is rounded, which I can see from some old chisel marks was a problem the last time as well.
Lower timing belt cover is in the way for me to get a good grip on the torx. How much do I need to dismantle to get the cover off?
is the pulley at the water pump enough?

Post

Back to the top
You may be able to move the alternator enough to change the alternator belt with the rounded bolt left alone.
Loosen the other bolts and with a chunky bit of wood on the alternator and tap the wood with a hammer and it may move it.

I had the same problem with a rounded bolt.

1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 300,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.

Post

Back to the top
Thanks - I managed to do as you explain.

I don’t like to leave the hex bolt as that, so I thought I would just go ahead and replace the timing belt as well, which gives me better workspace. Unfortunately, the hex bolts on the crankshaft pulley are round as well.
What’s the magic trick to get these out? Someone must have invested some kind of tool!

E1640AA1-D2DE-4B4D-B34A-819366E5DC9D.jpeg

Post

Back to the top
Seems you are having a bit of a nightmare from previous owners not seating the tools properly when undoing them and not replacing worn bolts once they removed them…

You could try and hammer in an oversized spline tool into the bolt and hope it holds when undoing them?

Get new bolts Once you do get them off, alternator bolt you can buy new.
Alternator bolt but out of stock or try ebay.

Alternator Pivot Bolt N0447211 Mk1 Golf Mk2 Golf Scirocco Jetta T25

Crank pulley bolts are also available new, I did buy mine from VW a few years ago.

On my 1978 Mk1 scirocco it's got "normal" 6 sided bolts  on the crank and water pump but on my 1988 Mk1 Golf I've Allen key bolts like you so I guess you could fit "normal" bolts

1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 300,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.

Post

Back to the top
Some pictures, part numbers a bolt sizes..

I think the crank pulley are the same size as the water pump so M8 x 12 ?
I can't seem to find the crank pulley…

engine Golf Cabriolet (GOC) 1988 year Volkswagen EUROPA

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/golf+cabriolet/goc/1988-44/9/903-196010/

1988 Mk1 Golf GTi Cabriolet 1.8cc DX, K-jet. Daily drive. 300,000 miles and counting
1978 Mk1 Scirocco GLS 1.6cc FR, Webber carb. Weekend toy.

Post

Back to the top
I'd try a spline/bi-hex hammered in or smaller socket hammered on.

Even the 'experts' have problems, years ago I had a Polo 1.6D and the VW garage when changing the timeing belt rounded them off and had to keep it an extra night and then charged me for the new bolts….

1983 Mars Red 1.8 Golf GTI
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet

The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.

Post

Back to the top
Yeah… i have found small things like this everywhere.
Previous owner is an old VW mechanic, so I'm a bit surprised to see he didn't just replace the bolts after having used a chisel on them.
Same thing with the bolts at the transmission/driveshaft - it was a nightmare to get them off.

I will see what I can find to seat in the hole. Maybe I will try one of the bolt extractor sets, even though I can't imagine that they will get seated properly?

I don't worry too much about finding new bolts. I can see
mine was fitted with normal bolts as well when new, according to ETKA. Whatever I fit, it can't be any worse than this.

Post

Back to the top
heat and the good mole/vice grips, failing that drill head off..
then redrill if remaining thread wont turn out. time + drills= pleasure

On the drive
T25 Diesel…sameoldblueshi£ (currently under resto)
Rocco gt2….1990 secret 2…(currently under resto)
Mk4 99 1.8t indigo blue Gti with 43k miles
Caster 93 clipper JH Green cabby
Snowy 91 GTi White cabby( sat waiting for inspiration)
Myvalver 89 GTi Grey mk2 16v
Yuppy Flu 91 GTi Flash Red Sportline


 Golf mk1 owner's club on Spotify

Mk1 golf owners club playlist: Golf mk1 owner's club playlist - YouTube

Post

Back to the top
Left handed drill bits and a reversible drill in reverse.
I would try to cut a groove in them with a Dremel, then use a straight slot screw driver….

For the left handed bits use one that is smaller than the bolt…. a hammer drill works really really well, so well it will scare the excrement out of you.

You can see a YouTuber video on how to do it.

What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?

They all start with GOOD Grounds.

Where are my DIY Links?

Post

Back to the top
Thanks for all the tips, guys.
I tried more or less all of them, and succeeded with a combination of all!
Now I only have one T-bolt remaining, which holds the lower timing belt cover.
Am I correct in assuming that the bolt is only threaded at the end where the nut is screwed on (which of course snapped), and I should be able to wiggle it loose at the T-end and punch it out from the other side?
I tried to punch the T a bit, but it doesn't give.
B97F822C-EB51-45CB-AF70-1212F27157DE.jpeg 1FBE6506-8624-4795-A227-D7FDFB9A5ECC.jpeg

Post

Back to the top
You may be better served by replacing the waterpump and housing with new.  As the WP bolts are going to shear when you remove them.  That "t" bolt is usually free to spin with out the cover and since it isn't it is rust or corrosion bound, you can try to cut the head off then carefully drill it but until it spins in the hole you will be fighting it all the way, a tad bit of heat may assist.

What I have done whenever I replaced my pumps with new is to use Never-seize on all the bolts, they only torque to 87 in/lbs, and slather the "T" bolt shaft and threads with it.  After I have it all assembled and before bolting on, I paint the rear of the bolt holes with battery corrosion paint to prevent it from creeping in from the rear.

"t" bolt hole




Going back with the new bolts I would make sure to slather them with Never-Seize, and set them to the proper torque.

Getting it off the car and where you can work on it is easier.  There are only 4 bolts holding it to the block and they are steel into steel, so you don't get the same dissimilar metal corrosion that you do from Steel into Aluminum, but I have found that Never-Seize on those are a godsend as well.

I don't like busted knuckles.  Be sure that if you go this route that you clean the block face where the o-ring is.




 

Last edit: by Briano1234


What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?

They all start with GOOD Grounds.

Where are my DIY Links?

Post

Back to the top
And if you are a cheap skate like me (or don't like waiting for parts) you can make a new T-bolt out of a coach bolt! I'll snap a picture later. Does the job even if it doesn't look 'factory'.

My rebuild thread I will try and keep up to date: here

K-Jet fuel pressure test guage How-To

Post

Back to the top

paceman said

And if you are a cheap skate like me (or don't like waiting for parts) you can make a new T-bolt out of a coach bolt! I'll snap a picture later. Does the job even if it doesn't look 'factory'.

I am not  personally a Cheap Skate, nor Cheap Bastich… I am a Illegitimate Cost Effective Person… Sounds nice.

What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?

They all start with GOOD Grounds.

Where are my DIY Links?

Post

Back to the top
Removed the water pump as suggested, and managed to get the T bolt drilled out, without disassembling the pump…  shitty job that cost me a few drills.
I took a normal A2 stainless hex bolt and removed one of the "corners"… seem to fit perfectly. As I see it, it serves no other purpose than keeping the metal backplate and the lower cover in their place, so it should be OK?

3E5D3CF4-0D93-4A9F-B0D6-BE27CE4771BA.jpeg

  I will go ahead and order a new pump anyway, for next time I will have to drain the system… it's less than 60 euros for an SKF, and half that for the cheaper brands.
Never heard about the trick with the battery sealant, but I will give it a try.


One thing I see different opinions on (and not mentioned in the Haynes), is wether the stud for the timing belt tensioner  should have a splash of Loctite or not? The one I removed didn't have any, and has been there for a minimum of 9 years, according to the production date of the old timing belt.

By the way - a few weeks back, I was doing the Pierburg carburetor. That seemed like a breeze compared to this never ending story.

Post

Back to the top
Found the tensioner stud in the Haynes manual. They state locking compound should be used at the stud.which makes good sense for me… just wasn’t applied to the old one I removed, for some reason.

Post

Back to the top
Personally I have never used locktite on it over the years of Diesel to Gasser ownership.  I also do not use never-seize on it either probably the only bolt I don't.

I have never had it back out once firmly set.

I have been known to have them bend on me from the blasted broken motor mount….

What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?

They all start with GOOD Grounds.

Where are my DIY Links?

Post

Back to the top
The belt seems to have been there for 9 years, so I guess the stud has been as well. The stud was still nice and tight after all those years, so loctite most likely is a bit of overkill, but better safe than sorry.

New bolts coming tomorrow, together with O-rings for the water pump - hopefully this chapter will be closed soon.

Post

Back to the top

BEK said

I took a normal A2 stainless hex bolt and removed one of the "corners"… seem to fit perfectly. As I see it, it serves no other purpose than keeping the metal backplate and the lower cover in their place, so it should be OK?

No it actually holds the WP Housing to the WP so while it also helps keep the timing cover on it actually helps seal the edges together

BEK said

  I will go ahead and order a new pump anyway, for next time I will have to drain the system… it's less than 60 euros for an SKF, and half that for the cheaper brands.
Never heard about the trick with the battery sealant, but I will give it a try.


When you order it and it arrives, I strongly suggest-urge-hint, that you want to remove each bolt one at a time, slather with never-seize, replace and re-torque to 87 in/lbs then spray the backsides.  That way in the future you will never have the issue with frozen Bolts or the inability to repair the WP with just a WP.  

If you want to know more look up Differential Metal Corrosion… Steel into Aluminum does it all the time, fact of life, Electrolysis, and or Chemistry…Using never-seize saves you the bolt, knuckles, nearby children the string of obscenities that burst from your mouth when you uncontrollably snap the head off a bolt and busticate your knuckle while dropping the spanner from your hand.  :) . Been There, done that, just trying to save you the pain, social embarrassment and or possible jail time for doing it infront of a child. :) . Just a PC joke folks….

What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?

They all start with GOOD Grounds.

Where are my DIY Links?

Post

Back to the top

Briano1234 said

No it actually holds the WP Housing to the WP so while it also helps keep the timing cover on it actually helps seal the edges together
There's another bolt 2cm from it, so it can't add much pressure? Anyway, there will be more tension on the housing with the one I installed now, than a T bolt


Briano1234 said

When you order it and it arrives, I strongly suggest-urge-hint, that you want to remove each bolt one at a time, slather with never-seize, replace and re-torque to 87 in/lbs then spray the backsides.  That way in the future you will never have the issue with frozen Bolts or the inability to repair the WP with just a WP.

If you want to know more look up Differential Metal Corrosion… Steel into Aluminum does it all the time, fact of life, Electrolysis, and or Chemistry…Using never-seize saves you the bolt, knuckles, nearby children the string of obscenities that burst from your mouth when you uncontrollably snap the head off a bolt and busticate your knuckle while dropping the spanner from your hand.  :). Been There, done that, just trying to save you the pain, social embarrassment and or possible jail time for doing it infront of a child. :). Just a PC joke folks….
I work in off-shore, so I'm a bit familiar with the corrosion of metals, although we mostly do  (when possible) everything in acid-proof stainless steel.
What's the never-seize made of? What's the main component?
On the car I normally use copper or aluminum spray, and for stainless I use a Molycote 33.

Post

Back to the top
Y'all call it copper Grease I think over there.
It is a Aluminum or Copper Grease that when slathered on the threads of a bolt helps it to stop corroding in metal to ease disassembly later on.  Whenever I am using a steel bolt in aluminum I use it.
I uses it on all suspension bolts that are subject to road salts or what ever.


What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?

They all start with GOOD Grounds.

Where are my DIY Links?
0 guests and 0 members have just viewed this: None.