Confusing Ride Height/Camber Issue

I have fitted new struts/top mounts (Bilstein to standard OEM spec') and control arms/bushes (Febi Bilstein 07167 kit), to my 1981 1.3 (GF). I have initially set the camber to the mid point on the eccentric both sides. When I lowered it back onto its wheels it was sitting very high at the front. I figured it would settle once I drove it around the yard but what I found is very confusing. If I creep slowly forward, the front of the car starts to rise up,, then when I creep backwards it comes down again. When its at its lowest the wheels have excessive negative camber. When at its highest the wheels look almost perpendicular. I know I don't have the camber set accurately yet but why would it be acting like this ?. It's strange watching the nose rise up as it moves forward. There is abount a one inch difference in the height between max and min. This has really got me stumped so any ideas are most welcome. 

Are the bolts connecting strut to hub including camber bolts tight ?…

abfmk1 said

Are the bolts connecting strut to hub including camber bolts tight ?…

Yes, all tightened.

Have you fitted softer/longer springs than before? Assuming all your wishbone joints are secure, that could explain the difference from what you experienced before. It will likely take a few hundred miles for the new springs and bushes to settle to their natural position before you can make the final geometry adjustments.

typ_53b said

Have you fitted softer/longer springs than before? Assuming all your wishbone joints are secure, that could explain the difference from what you experienced before. It will likely take a few hundred miles for the new springs and bushes to settle to their natural position before you can make the final geometry adjustments.

I reused the original springs. I understand things settling in but this cyclic rising.falling of the front end is very strange.

tighten up the wishbone bushes/bolts when its on the ground in its normal position

Early-1800 said

tighten up the wishbone bushes/bolts when its on the ground in its normal position

That's how I torqued up the bottom arms so there should be no undue stresses on the bushes.

I thought Early-1800 had hit the nail on its head, but obviously not. Could it just be a difference in the stiffness of the new v old shocks?

I doubt it really, this wouldn't explain the front end rising and falling and the camber going from extreme negative to pretty much zero. I wondered if the wishbone could be for a wider track but the Febi part number ties in exactly with my year/engine. That said I will compare with the old ones tomorrow. I also wondered if maybe a driveshaft had come out the diff partially therefore pushing the hub outwards as it rotates but there are no other signs of this but it's another thing I will check tomorrow.

A small rise and fall doesn't serm too concerning but the noticeable camber shifts seem very strange. It sounds more like the sort of behaviour you would expect if a wishbone bush was completely missing, or perhaps far too soft?

typ_53b said

A small rise and fall doesn't serm too concerning but the noticeable camber shifts seem very strange. It sounds more like the sort of behaviour you would expect if a wishbone bush was completely missing, or perhaps far too soft?

You would think so but the bushes are new, correctly located and torqued under load. I'll go through everything again tomorrow incase I've missed something obvious.

One thing I noticed this morning, the rear bushes on the old arms are rotated inwards (one more than the other). I assumed this was just down to distortion with age so when I assembled the new arms I installed the bushes parallel with the arms. Is it important to install the bushes at an angle like this ?. I'm wondering if this is causing the increased ride height but struggling to see how it would result in the height rising and falling as I move the car forward. I don't see anything else wrong, the arms are identical to the old ones, drive shafts are properly located in the diff. I can't think of anything else.

I'd always assumed the wishbones were free to rotate within the rear bushes, so they would find their own angle, but I may be wrong. The flat part of the bushes should presumably be clamped parallel to the floorpan

typ_53b said

I'd always assumed the wishbones were free to rotate within the rear bushes, so they would find their own angle, but I may be wrong. The flat part of the bushes should presumably be clamped parallel to the floorpan

Yes they are. The bushes are a very tight fit on the arm, I'm assuming that they twist the rubber as the arm moves to provide some form of resistance but could be wrong. On later VWs I'm familiar with the bush and arm are hexagonal so that the bush twists but I'm not sure if the theory is the same for this early type.

Still can't figure this out. The ride height changes by 20mm. It's at the lowest when the wheel shows large negative camber then after rolling the car forward the camber pretty much goes to zero and the ride height increases by 20mm. I haven't touched the toe adjustment at all so I know this is likely out after fitting the new control arms, but I can't think why this would cause the issue. Everything is tight, how can the camber angle change purely by moving the car a few feet ?. The new struts and arms measure identical to the old ones and I've reused the springs. I'm at a loss.

I see what you mean - the difference in camber between the two photos looks incredible. This must surely be down to a massive amount of play somewhere in the lower strut or control arm. Are you certain all the joints are sound and bolts secure. If so, I am wondering if there could be a more sinister cause, eg flexing of the control arm mounts due to structural corrosion in the chassis.

typ_53b said

I see what you mean - the difference in camber between the two photos looks incredible. This must surely be down to a massive amount of play somewhere in the lower strut or control arm. Are you certain all the joints are sound and bolts secure. If so, I am wondering if there could be a more sinister cause, eg flexing of the control arm mounts due to structural corrosion in the chassis.

Everything is fitted correctly and brand new apart from the springs. There is absolutely no corrosion, it is perfect and before I fitted the new parts it sat and drove with no issues at all. As the hub is fixed at the bottom by the control arm the wheel can only be tipping in at the top, for what reason I have no idea. The top mounts are new Febi and are correctly fitted. Why it cycles from negative camber to none is a complete mystery. Both sides are doing exactly the same too which is even more strange. All I can do is check underneath at both extremes to see if anything looks wrong. 

What does the top of the strut mount look like and what is the distance in the gap between the top steel plate and the rubber mount?  Do you have the Bushing in the mount and is the upper washer fully seated against the steel plate or about .10 In space between them?

How tight are your axle nuts?

Briano1234 said

What does the top of the strut mount look like and what is the distance in the gap between the top steel plate and the rubber mount?  Do you have the Bushing in the mount and is the upper washer fully seated against the steel plate or about .10 In space between them?

How tight are your axle nuts?

I can only confirm that the spacers are fitted and the nuts tightened down fully. I would say that the top mounts seemed to be quite loose in that they can be rocked a fair bit. I'm not sure if this is normal but they were assembled as per the old ones and the nuts tightened down fully onto the spacers. I think I'll remove the struts again to double check. When you mention the upper washer, is fully seated correct or should there be a .10 (inch ?) gap ?. I couldn't really  see any way to go wrong with these but you have sewn the seeds of doubt now. If there is that much "rock" on the mounts this could be causing the strut to tip in excessively.

To me, there seems a lot more camber movement than could be explained by the top mounts. Are the mid-strut bolts the correct thickness and fully tight? Any movement here would of course play havoc with the camber angle.