Auto box noobie question

Hi guys

I've not had my 88 cabby long - it's a 1.8 clipper auto - how should the gearbox run ??? I know that sounds daft but as I put it in reverse or drive the vehicle thumps and lurches slightly, it also sounds to have a whine at idle when in neutral.

i asked the previous owner and he said the box was reconditioned in 2010 which the box should have only done 3000 miles if that's right.

so basic checks,since I don't have an owners manual yet and still trying to figure out which Haynes i need as all of them say not for cabrio, how do I check the gearbox oil using the dip stick and where do I top up if required ???

thanks in advance guys

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I don't really know much about the VW auto box but if it's playing up and making noises the first thing I would do is change the oil, what colour is the oil in there?
As for the dip stick I guess there is 2 marks on there, one for when the gear box is cold and one for when it's hot (That's if it's the same as my mothers Honda Jazz).

the oil looks red and fairly clear although its quite difficult to get a reading on it.

I did read that the engine had to be running and had to be in neutral to check ???? don't know if that's right.

Im so used to modern autos , it may just be how these vehicle are !!!

What's your idle speed? Too high and you'll get harsh changes from neutral to drive/reverse.

Hi paul in neutral it's about 1500rpm when sat in drive with my foot on the brake about 800rpm !!!

That's way too high, should be about 850rpm or so - exact spec is in the Haynes manual.

Thought that might be the case but what happens if you sit with your foot on the brakes ??  Would that mean that the idle speed would be near cut out ??? Sorry to sound thick but I have never owned an auto before and my experience with autos is on the range rovers !! 

No it shouldn't be near cut out. I've never had a MK1 Auto so really don't know too much about them to be honest.

I'm sure someone on here will know . Bert ??

Slammed88 said

Thought that might be the case but what happens if you sit with your foot on the brakes ??  Would that mean that the idle speed would be near cut out ??? Sorry to sound thick but I have never owned an auto before and my experience with autos is on the range rovers !! 

Cut-out is 0rpm, idle speed (on a Mk1 Golf) is no where near that. In an automatic there is a torque converter which slips at low revs and as revs increase, gradually transfers more and more torque. So, at idle speed it transfers little or no torque. The car MIGHT creep forwards a little when D is selected at idle, but it would be easy to stop it creeping forwards by either applying footbrake or handbrake.

For example, at traffic lights you'd slow down and stop at a red light, you'd not take it out of D though.

Sounds like you might have a carb problem to be honest. Is the return spring still fitted on the throttle cable? (beware: there are two - one near the carb and one on the front edge of the gearbox protection plate).

Mine's an auto - idles at 500-600rpm hot and around 1000 cold. You will get a small thump from park/neutral into D or R, but it shouldn't lurch or shake the whole car.

With the gearbox in D, you should be able to stop it easily with the footbrake and it should creep forward when you release the brake - even uphill. Get yourself used to the idea of never having to do a hillstart again!  I usually don't use the handbrake in an automatic unless I'm in neutral (e.g. if you want to give the engine a rest in a traffic jam) or if your footbrake's failed… 98% of the time you'll be in D until you need to park, and you shouldn't shift out of D at traffic lights etc as it'll just wear the shifter out. To shift down when accelerating just press the accelerator all the way down - you should feel a detent at or near the bottom of its travel where the kickdown switch activates and the gearbox will shift down a gear (giving you more acceleration for overtaking etc). Remember these old gearboxes only have three forward gears! The 1/2 settings will prevent the gearbox from changing up out of the gear shown - eg 1 will lock it in first gear, 2 will use 1st and 2nd, D will allow it to use 3rd as well. You only need to use these when descending steep hills to get an engine braking effect.

Low fluid level will cause it to lurch but when it's bad you normally also find it will struggle to get into gear from a standstill - if you've stopped with the footbrake and you're still in D, accelerating will cause the engine to briefly rev hard (often >2000rpm) and then bang into gear. Topping up is easy but they are normally underfilled because people check them when cold - this allows all the oil to drain back to the sump from the torque converter and gives you a false (high) reading. Instead, run it for 4-5 miles and then check it with the gearbox in P or N and the engine running - the level should be between the two dimples on the dipstick. It's normally a right pain to check because the fan harness will be in the way, try not to let it wipe all the fluid off before you look at it!

Hope that helps, give me a shout if you have any more questions Stone

Handbrake is still used in an auto.

Clarified my post slightly - I personally don't tend to use it while driving, but it has its uses (e.g. not having your brake lights on and annoying the driver behind, plus if you get rear-ended or your foot tips off the brake pedal hen you are less likely to hit the car in front).

You should always be using it when parked up, as otherwise the whole weight of the car is resting on a tiny pawl in the gearbox - this risks breaking it, and makes it harder to shift out of park and into D or R. Stop with the footbrake, apply handbrake, then select P, then release footbrake. The car shouldn't move when you let go of the footbrake.

You see this a lot in American TV shows as they tend to just select P and not use the handbrake (possibly because they call it the emergency brake?), so when they pull up you often see the car 'wallow' slightly because the car rolls until the pin engages inside the gearbox. Not good practice.

Stone

Stone said

Clarified my post slightly - I personally don't tend to use it while driving, but it has its uses (e.g. not having your brake lights on and annoying the driver behind, plus if you get rear-ended or your foot tips off the brake pedal hen you are less likely to hit the car in front).

I regularly drive 5x autos and 4 manuals. Autos vary a bit in their behaviour - and how good their handbrakes are! Ideally the handbrake should be used to "hold" the car against D when the time stopped is longer than a short time (ie where you'd just use the footbrake) but not long enough to use P. For example red traffic lights. And for parking on slopes, where the Park position is too weak to reliably hold the car.

Its a bit of a myth that the handbrake on an auto is never needed/used, that's all.

Thanks guys for all your input !

Having lost drive in reverse only the other week I decided I needed to put the oil change higher up the priority list, so I bought the parts and had the gearbox oil,pan filter and gaskets replaced at Vw.

This turned out to be a good thing as I was informed that when the oil was dropped it was contaminated and in a poor condition,the car does drive much better although the torque doesn't seem as good in reverse as it was although if I rev the vehicle slightly and hold the car on the brake it does come back.

I know the car does need a new carb as the pooberg is rubbish and that is up there on the to do list,all in all the car has now had a major service and hopefully with replacement of the carb the car should drive amazing (or as good as it gets).

It does still bang a bit into gear ,although when the car is about to cut out and you shift to drive it doesn't do it which backs up the idle speed theory, the whine has defo gone and the shift is miles smoother.

Fingers crossed I might be getting some where with it,maybe I'll get a day when it doesn't breakdown on me.

Sounds like they may have underfilled it, to be honest. It's not on the service schedule (normally the 60k mile warranty expires and then the gearbox expires too…) so they may well never have done it before!

The giveaway is having to rev it up to gain reverse - if it's underfilled then it will take a little more time/revs to build fluid pressure. The gearbox is 100% hydraulic, there's no electronics in there at all, so fluid level is totally critical to proper operation. If it's been refurbed recently then the pump is probably fine so that and banging into gear would imply low fluid. Check it!

Do keep an eye on the bottom of the gearbox too - I received a very very old pan seal from VW Heritage which had gone hard and sealed really badly.

Stone

Old thread ressurection - apologies !  I have a Mk2 Scirocco Auto that runs beautifuly HOWEVER when sat at the lights in D (foot on brake) the box vibrates the whole dash / steering wheel etc - worse when cold, not so bad when warm but annoying nonetheless. The moment I let my foot off the brake and accelerate it's perfect again - response is immediate, gear changes are smooth and kickdown fine, as are all the slections individually (1, 2, D, N, R & P). The auto box and torque converter were NOS and not refurbed, fitted 3 or 4 years ago and is otherwise perfect and ATF levels correct. Idle when warm is 800 RPM and I was thinking of increasing  that to 1000 say as an experiment however I have a nagging suspicion that the cable(s) connecting the selector and throttle to the gear box may not be correctly set but have no idea in what way - does anyone have insight as to whether adjustment of these would eliminate the shuddering when brake applied at standstill in D (at junctions etc) - it's the only thing that is blighting what is otherwise a superbly running vehicle. Thanks

No I would suspect the mounts, specially the rear.
I found that on my Autos, the RPM should be @ 950
so going from 950-1000 isn't that much of a difference.

The Throttle cables to the Carb or Throttlebody are a wee bit different.  The one from the Pedal to the lever should be tight and a wee bit of play.  The one from the Arm to the Throttlebody should be tight enough so there isn't any slop when you pull on the arm.  Tight enough so the Throttle body or carb buterfly doesn't move but only under arm movement and fully closes.

The fluid are 2 types, 90wt for the Diff, and Dexron3 for the main transmission.  You can Exchange the Fluid as that is how I did it.  Takes about 9-12 Qts of fluid drain   3 quarts add 3 new Drive it a bit to get warm  about 5 minutes  drain 3 and add 3. Rinse repeat till done.

The 010 has been known to go 400k before rebuild.

The shifter cable takes two folks one to adjust and one to move it between positions so you can see the positive adjustment.

All of my Knowledge is at this link including a link to the ATSG.  
https://www.volkswagenownersclub.com/forums/mk1-rabbit-transmission.321/

Then
Tech Groups
Group 3 section 38.