Quest for more power

Hi all
I have a 1.8gti that could do with a little more oomph.
I'd like to stick with 8v as I'm really only interested in achieving 130-140 bhp with good mid range torque (I'm over 40 now so not really into the revvey valvers)

I was planning the 2e/agg 2.0 route with a ported & polished head with 40mm inlet & 35mm exhaust valves, bigger TB and WUR mod, Newman 268 cam (or similar). Plus brakes obviously..

However, I have been reading my Golf GTI Performance Manual written by Tim Stiles. In it he mentions that the 1.8 has plenty of capacity for boring up to 83mm from 81mm standard to get 1.9. He then states that adding a later longer stroke 2.0 crank (86.4mm std to 94mm) with appropriate pistons will give 2.0.

I would probably have to hone the agg engine and possible increase the pistons by +.5mm anyway, regrind the crank etc. So I'm thinking I may as well just rebuild a 1.8 and then the bay looks stock, all my current bits will fit (dizzy, etc) without any trouble, and I don't have the +16mm additional block height and exhaust issue to deal with. (Especially as a 3a block is like rockin horse poop and the pistons with oil squirters could be even harder to source or more expensive)

Firstly, do you think the 1800 DX to 2000 is easily achievable?
Would it be the more cost effective solution?
Is there something I am missing or just being an idiot??

one of the things that attracts me about the 2e/agg route is that I can keep the car running while I do the engine off line, with a cheap dx head.
Which head is best for modifying? Solid lifters or hydraulic? Or does it not really matter as I'm not going extreme?

Any thoughts/comments greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Huw

if you want 140bhp you'll have to drop a hefty chunk of money on an 8v to get that kind of power, wheras you could buy an abf lump which will have at least 150bhp before you even think about modification.

the abf injection system has the power delivery you are after, a steady heap of solid torque available all the way up thru the rev range no having to wring the life out of it to get peak power as per kr

if you're really set on 8v power then dont bother spending on having the block bored, just stick a mk3 2.0 lump in for peanuts, drop the money into the head! if you are going for heavy modifications bin the kjet theres far more scope for tuning the stock mk3 management or better yet megasquirt! the MK3 heads do flow just as well as the mk1/2 heads dispute popular opinion, or you could look for a crossflow head and get that sorted out if you like, though they arnt massively awesome over the counterflow head really

for inspiration, heres my bone stock ABF lump with a jetex exhaust, chip and no chip:

Thanks Rub
My reason for sticking with 8v was to get the mid range torque as I had heard loads of issues with 16v (probably the kr's then)

Would be much more cost effective to just get an ABF then. Will I need the ecu and loom to run it?

I guess I have a different direction to research.
Many thanks for your comments, it does seem to make more sense than my plans…
Huw

you can run it on whatever management you like, but I would recommend the abf stuff or go megasquirt

the 1.8 kr yeah these make peak power higher up the rev range and the power kinda ramps up so to get the best you need to keep the revs high, ABF power is just effortless no matter how you drive it, awesome in a mk2 spectacular in a mk1

gearbox choice also makes an impact, i loved the kr lump in my mk1 cabrio with a short ratio mk1 1.6 box it was proper rapid off the line but downside with the shorter ratios is it was quite revvy when cruising on the motorway so in an ideal world I would have swapped a taller 5th into that box.

in my mk2 abf i have a mk2 16v gearbox which is good for acceleration but again 5th is a bit taller than i would like when cruising, an 8v box is same 1-4 and slightly taller 5th so an option. My long term plan is to put a mk3 2.0 8v 5th gear in, but a mk3 2.0 8v box would also be a good match with an abf, its a little more relaxed than a mk2 gearbox but still sporty

You've got me convinced Rub.

I'm on the look out for a complete unit. I've got the 5 speed box already in my mk1 which is quite good. Would the mk3 box be better? is the 8v and 16v box dirrerent

What grief might I encounter.
Wiring - but as mine is an 82 gti 1.8 I'm hoping it wont be too much of a change?
Fuel lines - from passenger to drivers front to new metering head.
Exhaust - due to height increase.

Does the ecu need to be wired in to get over the immobiliser issue? Does it need to come with the original key?

Thanks for you help, these forums are great

the one you have is probably the same ratios as a mk2 8v box so will be great for an abf. the mk2 16v box is same 1-4 but shorter 5th, mk3 8v box is a bit more relaxed across the range so better for cruising but not so great for accelleration. depends what you want really! but if the mk1 box is healthy i would just stick with it, put a new mk1 gti sachs cluch kit on it and swap the mk1 flywheel over

if it has the later blade fusebox:
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?249714

with fuel lines couple options if the originals are good you can bend them over to the driver side, but if they look a bit grotty I'd bin it all the lines along with the fuel accumulator. Keep the mk1 fuel pump andget yourself an M12x1.5 barbed banjo adaptor for 7-8mm fuel line. Then run new 7-8mm rubber fuel injection hose front to back, try to get metal overbraid type for some additional protection.  I'd also look into mk2 or mk3 plastic fuel line, might fit nicely

the manifold is the biggest worry, be sure yto get one with RHD mk1 ABF in mind as some of them either hit the body or set fire to the steering uj boot! another option is use the mabf manifold and weld the top of the mk2/3 downpipe to the bottom of a mk1 downpipe with a kink to clear the gear linkages:
View topic: Project 83 MK1 cabby, several years in the making! - The Mk1 Golf Owners Club

for the ecu if its a pre-96 then no immobiliser to worry about, if post-96 then you can get it defeated but its not hard at all to get the immobiliser working as it only has 4 wires ign live, earth and a wire to ecu plus diagnostics port output.  any post-96 mk3 immob unit will do but it MUST have a matched chip or you wont get anywhere. once you have this it can be coded to the ecu in vagcom easily. if you can get the reader coil under the mk1 ignition plastics you can have the immobiliser fully functional just get a blank mk3 chip key cut to your locks and swap chip over

That's great info Rubjonny
Many thanks

Just won a complete abf engine with ecu, loom, key, and gearbox.
I guess I'm committed…
Just got to collect it now.

Ok. As of 11pm yesterday I have a 120k abf lump sitting on the garage floor. Not the best night to collect as it was pi$$ing down….

The engine and box has quite litterally been unbolted at the mounts and lifted clear. Loom, ecu, transponder and key are present.

I was expecting a metering head like on Kjet, but I see there is some kind of fuel rail under the inlet manifold? Just the air intake box came with it. It has aircon fitted which will be removed.

Do I need to get different engine mount brackets?

I will have a good read through the wiring thread you linked to tonight.

I intend to use the abf as is, injection and management system. I was going to tart it up, but might just throw it in. Will have a good look over it at the weekend and decide as it does look tidy.

Exciting
Thanks

your old mounts will swap over, just need to trim the cam belt cover a bit to fit round the driver side mount.

you basically have everything you need except for the exhaust downpipe, with that its a case of research to find a 4 branch that fits abf and clears uj nicely or make up your own with half mk2/3 downpipe and mk1 downpipe welded together like the one in my thread

with aircon what you do is bin the compressor + steady arm and fit a non-a/c mk3 waterpump pulley + both non-a/c alternator belt. Beware there are 2 depending on the age ofthe engine for the self-tensioner setup!
However you might want to swap the alternator and self-tensioner bracket for an early mk3 non-a/c type with the big spring under the alternator as the setup you have the tensioner wheel can hit the chassis leg, you can put a small dent in it to create clearance though if you like. Oh and you can just unbolt the pas pump & brackets, the waterpump and alternator are both driven off the crank pulley on non-ac mk3

other thing is airbox, as you can probably see the mk3 one is huge and wont fit so you'll need a cone filter (try to get abf specific one with hole for inlet temp sensor) or see if you can find a mk2 diesel airbox part number 191 129 607 E or D which is a perfect fit for mk1 abf, or if you can a mk1 diesel one but rare as!

As ever rubjonny, really useful info. Thankyou.

I will try and stick with the current alternator to keep my costs low, but I will look into the pulley costs relative to a second hand pre 96 alternator.

My next concern is the wiring. I haven't read your wiring thread yet as I can't see the pics in work, but i'll ask anyway…
Assuming i have the blade type fuse box, do i need to cut my existing dx loom for parts, or will the abf one just swap in?
How do I check if the key and transponder are matched before deciding weather to beat the immobaliser or not?

Many thanks
Huw

you'll need the waterpump pulley regardless of what alternator you fit, just you may have to put a dink in the chassis leg to clear the tensioner arm if you keep the std setup

you'll need a mk1 wiring loom of some kind to base your new loom on, you might want to get another blade fusebox loom to chop some pins out of as well. reason is there is no fuel pump relay trigger wire in d/13 which you will need ideally. you can however use a non-rev limiter kjet pump relay instead its up to you. you can buy the pins new as well if you have a pro crimping tool

only way to check the immob box is to try to start the car really, unless you have a vag-tacho cable you can power it up with the key taped into the reader coil and attempt to retrieve the SKC code from the box. if it works the key is matched, if not it isnt or the reader coil is broken

Thanks Rubjonny
I see what you mean about the tensioner arm now. Just spent an hour in the garage stripping off the power steering, air con, and gear box. And building my new engine stand..

How do you lock the engine to get the flywheel bolts undone?? They are bloody tight….
Thanks

brokes method

D'oh   
why didn't i think of that….
thanks again

Engine stripped now. head still has cams and valves in. case is ready to have crank and pistons removed.

I am thinking i would like to stick the abf dpa gearbox in. As you know, it's a hydraulic clutch and cable change - which presents me with some issues.

I have seen that the clutch issue can be overcome by a lever mech from vw for 50 quid and a longer cable.  Awesome!

Can i bolt in the cable shift mech from a 1.2 polo or similar? I supose cable length is key? And it wont be close ratio. Can this be done, and can it be made close ratio?

Many thanks

there are various cars about with the cable kit, main thing is the box has to be an 02a or 02j, as you say some polos have it as well as the mk3 ibiza plus the other obvious ones such as mk4 golf etc.

if you go for a later mk4 style shifter you can use short shift kit off an audi tt, but you'll also need the later mk4 style shifter tower as well to match

Thanks rubjonny
Is it best to get off to the scrappy and find a Mk4 golf and get the shift tower and cable shift mech together?
How will I know if it is late enough to be able to fit the tt short shift kit?

Stripped engine went off to the machine shop today for cleaning and honing (hoping not a rebore..) and to have the valve guides checked.

Thanks again
Huw

the earlier mk4 tower is basically the same as mk3 in design, the later ones have different cable ends.

pics ofthe TT shifter plus later end:
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?230387

note also there are 2 styles of late shifter with slightly different ends but the cable ends will swap both ways and you can mix n match just as long as you have the matching part of the linkage.

e.g. if you have an early late style () shifter setup you can switch the audi TT short shift straight and cable end on no problem with leaving the early end on the other cable (as you can see from link it comes with the late, late style end included if you buy new)