16v engine in a MK1 by paul-c

the exhaust bit matey, are you going to like tack it to the exhaust abit as when you go over bumps etc i think it will bounce about a tad as they do and might make a slight ding'ing noise not 100% sure it will just thinking out loud mate.
simon

looks good! keep up the good work

Its gonna be well worth all the hard work mate,trust me,i've just completed the same project myself.Got to floor it today and im still smiling now.Not long now and you'll be smiling too :wink: .

hey terribleone hows it going?! hows the wheels, they on the golf? i would like to see the old beasts again if you still have them.
so your impressed by the engine then paul let us know what its like.
i wouldnt sleep until it was done if i was like you at the moment

Hey Simon,your old wheels are on(finally got coilovers sorted)and i love em.I think they suit the car nicely and the size of em along with a nice light flywheel make the acceleration crazy.Will pm some pics soon as i get a chance.Need to get 3 more sp 2000's this week and my camber and tracking sorted then im done. For now Sorry to crash your thread paul i'll leave now :mrgreen:

Just a little update to say, its pretty much complete now. There's a few little tasks to do still but the engine is in and running not-too-bad. I've gingerly driven around 15 miles now, I don't want to push it too much until all is complete and everything's firmly bolted down. Actually I feel its a little down on power considering how much its expected to make, so I'm going to arrange to take it to Stealth, they are experts in this kind of thing and they can put it on a rolling road for a good setup. I think its due to the ignition or fuelling, I've only been able to make approximate settings to get it running. And there's a little tweak you can do to the warm up regulator to properly supply fuel at full throttle/full load condition, where maximum power is delivered.

hi paul great news!
few things.
my same engine is done by stealth too, i reccomend them, the WUR is already done on mine too.
let us know what power you make after all of this.

Been watching this with interest, do you know what the tweak is with the WUR?

gti0000 said

Been watching this with interest, do you know what the tweak is with the WUR?

As I understand it, there's a nut on the back that you can turn, which adjusts the effect of the vacuum on the fuel richening. They set it up to produce maximum power at full throttle and high rpm, while still keeping good mixture settings on part throttle, part load and idle, etc.

from what i understand, the nut is used to reduce fuel pressure and timing is advanced. the later 16v wur have a higher fuel pressure and tend to run lean top end, this mod is more effective on them. my friend (vag mechanic) done this years ago pn his valver.

Oh right, well good luck with it all, I did a 16v conversion years ago it was only 1.8 though, always loads more work (and money) than you anticipate isn't it! :evil:

de3660 said

hi again paul
just read what you wrote, how much has it cost you?
just wondering if it was cheaper to buy and engine and get them to fit it or do it all yourself?
Just to let you know (im not boasting) i bought a 185bhp rebuilt motor with lots done and had a garage to fit mine along with all new genuine mounts, water bottle, etc etc.

you didn't say what your's cost??

what me or paul?

de3660 said

what me or paul?

you  

looking at costings myself for doing a swap. found a guy willing to supply and fit a G60 for 2200 GBP

that a lot or not  :dontknow:

I went to Awesome GTI to have the car tuned/set up and put on a rolling road. It didn't quite go to plan. I've been having issues with my starter motor not working properly, even with a new starter on it. It turned out, the reason was that the baseline ignition timing was over-advanced and the car wasn't giving any mechanical or vacuum advance, so at speeds it was retarted. So, the guy at the workshop and I agreed to abort today's stuff and I was only charged for 1/2 hour's labour, rather than the ?105 or so for an hour on the rolling road. He explained that there's not a lot they can check or change on a K-Jet system anyway, he'd not really heard of the WUR mod.

I left comewhat confused and muddled. Once I got home I read and re-read all the sections on wiring. I couldn't get a straight answer on exactly which wires were supposed to go where, not helped by the fact that my loom (from a Golf MK2 16V) had a break in it, which was repaired by me.

So, I cleaned all the contacts of the main connection to the ECU, they were slightly corroded (and in fact, this was the original reason I'd not gotten the ignition working - they were filthy!) I tested it all and I could see I had mechanical and vacuum advance now.

I tuned the things I could (idle speed, CO (I have a Gunson Gastester) and a guess at ignition timing) and it seems to run okay, I've not had a chance to road test it though. Mind you, it did alright on the motorway on the way home (even with the ignition advance issue). The timing mark more/less lines up, I'll do a final tweak of ignition timing based on advancing a little further, then backing off if I get any pinking.

Hopefully I'll be able to book it into another rolling road session just so I can get a final power reading, just so I can show all my hard work and blood/sweat/tears hasn't ended me up with a 112.1bhp 2 litre 16V!

yogi said

de3660 said

what me or paul?

you  

looking at costings myself for doing a swap. found a guy willing to supply and fit a G60 for 2200 GBP

that a lot or not  :dontknow:

I would say that is very cheap when you see G60 engine and chargers go for around 1000 GBP in UK

MalC said

yogi said

de3660 said

what me or paul?

you  

looking at costings myself for doing a swap. found a guy willing to supply and fit a G60 for 2200 GBP

that a lot or not  :dontknow:

I would say that is very cheap when you see G60 engine and chargers go for around 1000 GBP in UK

I'd say its about right. There is more work involved in fitting the G60, compared to 16V 2l:

* Intercooler and pipework all have to be fitted in and connected up
* Probably end up using an 02A gearbox, needs different mounts which are pricey
* Most likely will need an air-oil cooler

I'd estimate I spent around that amount on mine, however I did the following additional, which you might not do in a 'normal' engine conversion:

* Painted engine bay and front panel
* New starter motor, radiator, oil cooler x2 (new water-oil and bigger air-oil), 16V pressure plate, changed WUR
* Rebuilt top end of engine too
* Complete new exhaust system inc. manifold
* Many components were cleaned up (blasted and powder-coated)
* Changed inlet cam

alright Paul, did you clear up the wiring issue?  Are you running same as me, mk1 loom for everything except mk2 KR 16V loom for ECU/TCI section?

Stealth are meant to be the daddies, tbh my local small garage knows the craic enough for me.

ManicGTI said

alright Paul, did you clear up the wiring issue?  Are you running same as me, mk1 loom for everything except mk2 KR 16V loom for ECU/TCI section?

Stealth are meant to be the daddies, tbh my local small garage knows the craic enough for me.

I think I did, in that I can achieve vacuum and mechanical (engine speed related) advance. The actual amounts of advance it gives, will/must be down to the ECU.

The reason I'm scratching my head is that the car is a mix of 3 cars - Mk1 Golf GTI 8V, Mk2 Golf GTI 16V and Passat 2.0 GT; and I never had either Mk2 or Passat to refer to. But I'm 90% sure I've sorted it all out. I used the FAQ, it was some help but it also relates to ISV operation. Also, there's different versions of the wiring for Mk2 Golf 16V (CE1 and CE2?) so you'd need to strip and adapt wiring from the different variants in slightly different ways. Its interesting reading around, that most people seem to get stuck on the wiring of a 16V into a Mk1. I'll see if there's anything we could put into the FAQ to make it easier!

absolutly mate!

I'm happy with the ECU part, easy as pie, but details of the ISV is ropey as haven't done it.

I have been meaning to get a good image of the ISV loom section etc.  Dub-ha8 had one around we were going to sort out.  

hmmm, So theres two different mk2 16v ISV set ups?  Yeah mate if you could nail teh ISV info down a bit it'd be awesome  8)

out of interest, what wiring are you using from the GT?

it looks great, well done. I am also doing the same but don't know which way to go. don't want to make a wrong choice. if you know so much is there chance i can call you and have a chat? send me a text on 07772255014 and i will call you back, the best time is about 6.30pm i would be very grateful if you can help as i don't know to much about doing my conversion being waiting to long (2 years) with shell fully resprayed, had a 16v empty engine bay HELP