Electrical Fault.. - No spark fuel pump not priming

So my rivage has been off the road for a while but got it MOT'd a couple of weeks ago. it actually has this problem since before the MOT but I thought it had gone

It seams to be an intermittent electrical problem

some times it will turn over with no spark, I know when its going to do this because I have also noticed at the same time that when I turn the key I don't hear the fuel pump.

It actually broke down in traffic when I was sat at the lights setting my clock ( not that that's anything to do with it)

but just now it was ticking over on the drive and I turned my heated seats up to see if I could hear the relay ( seats not connected)  *trying to sort my seats on another post*

I heard the relay so I turned it off..  I then connected my heated set connector whilst the car was running (heated switch turned off) and  the engine stalled as a result

now the electrical problem is back, no spark , no fuel pump noise on key turn..

things I have read on this forum and on other mk2 forums seem to point to the hall sensor..  but before I fork out to sort it could it actually be something else?

Cheers
Tony

 

Could it be a dicky ignition switch?

Bad Hall sender.
Bad Fuel Pump relay
Bad Ignition switch
Bad Grounds.
Bad ICM.
all come to mind as well as Dirty connectors.

Thanks both,  some diagnosis to do..  I jumped in the car this morning…  still dead.. no spark (it seams) and fuel pump not priming

so thinking about the ignition switch I gave my key a real good jiggle as it went in a couple of times to try..

after a couple of go's nothing but, then I heard my fuel pump prime on one of the attempts.

got the car to start again jiggling the key..  but now nothing again

I think I will start by replacing the ignition switch. at around £14 from vw heritage its not bad

Cheers
Tony

 

Hi mate
sounds like what happened to my mk2 but only in last 3 weeks… i checked for damp and recleaned earths. car died after warming up 20mins and then driving 3 miles. Lost all power and the spark, the dash went dim, when turning ignition key.
Anyhow have to listening to mark at classic vw, rubjonny and briano, ended up changing fuel pump relay,ICM, distributor and then finally the intank pump, so basically after timing belt and water pump done at same time,its new fuel/spark system.
Maybe you should bypass the fuel pump relay as described elsewhere, and then see if pump primes, then see if squirts also The inline tank pump ended up the main reason my car wouldnt fire, as diagnosed first by rub and briano but was slightly different model. Im in lincoln area, which may not help you but could plug my spares in and see,  try my other links such as my other project mk2 for links to parts and suppliers.

also sorry, my white cabby failed to start after been stood the winter, that turned out to be damp inthe relay caused by leaky roof,and condesate running down the window. Any how i tried new relay from spare car, and fired first time. Also i removed the cover from realy cleaned it up and left to dry for 24hrs in house and now it works again too, thats now a spare as dont trust in it fully.
 

Thanks for the offer, pity you are not round the corner.
My car had let in a lot of water mainly through failed mastick between the scuttle tray and the blower housing ..  water was pouring in and seeping through the sound deadening on the bulkhead..  I have now striped all of the underlay out found the leak and sorted   and probably have the driest cabby in the club :-)..  no water will get in again though the scuttle tray and I have a load of new sound deadening turning up today .. think its a good idea as you say to check the relays.  I have ordered an ignition switch this morning, so will change that out this weekend see what the result is

I would check the fuel pump relay 1st, as if that's faulty it won't send a signal to the coil so no spark.

If you pull out the fuel pump relay and check the condition of the plugs and fuse box, either get a thick bit of wire and bridge the 2 larger connections and the pump will run even with out the keys in.

The safer way is pull out relay 17 or 18 or 100 and turn it round till the pins line up in the fuel pump relay slot and put it in, this should make the fuel pump come on with the ignition on.

If you car starts and runs buy a new fuel pump relay and fingers crossed it's an easy fix if not at least you can keep a spare fuel pump relay in your glove box!

Long time since I did this but my fuel pump relay 62 is my fuel pump relay and I think the relay below it is 17 so remove both relays and use 17 in the fuel pump relay slot

fuel relay doesn't send a signal to the coil, its the other way round

if you suspect the switch unplug it and loop a wire between the red and black. if the pump primes each and every time then theres your problem. to get the car crankign loop a wire between the red and red/black. alternatively if you have already bought an ignition switch plug it into the loom and use a screwdriver on the wee slot in the middle to switch on the ignition and then crank it on starter

if still nothign when doign the above then chase the switch wiring back looking for damage

Cleaning the Rain Tray of Debris, and the Rain Drains even when parked goes a long way to removing water seepage.

Installing a Debris Guard over the Hood Vents is another.  See my Links, below on doing that.  The Advent of my adventures in Dryness was because the Electric Window controller is directly under the HOLE for the fresh air intake on my a/c equipped Cabriolet.  This allows water directly to the wires and right in to the controller.

Not having a Rain Divertor over the Rain tray and under the hood vents allows water to get everywhere in the rain tray and not directing it to the Drains…

VW used the right drain to route the Washer hose up through the drain and allowing debris to collect.

I Never liked the "AC Vacuum Balls lines to protrude into the engine bay and one fine day decided to re-route all of them.

I used the "Hard" Vacuum lines and inserted them in to the Grommet that is on the rain tray above the drain.
I cut and attached the lines to the Hard Vac lines and have been Happier than a clam.  I also found a very large check valve that holds enough vacuum to remove my "Balls" off my bunny so I have Gelded it.

How it was when I bought it.


The Balls


Big Check Valve…. Two in Parallel rock.


Hoses that I removed to re-locate.


First re-run of all lines via the Grommet, before I went with large check valve to remove the "Balls"




re-routed lines in the tray, and the large check valve, I have since gone with 2.



how I made a Debri guard.
http://www.toplessrabbit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1509&p=27750#p27750

I wonder if the mk2 golf debris guard would fit the mk1, the shape looks quite similar...

rubjonny said

I wonder if the mk2 golf debris guard would fit the mk1, the shape looks quite similar…

I too have wondered that as some that I have seen in the Breaker Yards have a built in Divertor…..

I did find the "original" mk1 add on, but they have the 2 nozzeled holes for the sprayers that mounted through the Bonnet vents.  Where as my Cabriolet had the single sprayer.  

The "Real Debris Guards and the Springs that hold them"

I've never seen a mk1 version before, looks strange

the mk2 one is solid plastic so easy to cut down if need be

Even with a Debris Guard, you will get leaves and such from the Bonnet falling in the crack, and you open the hood and such so while this keeps the Bigger stuff out, it doesn't stop it all.

Side note, on one of my Cross Country tours, (moving Children from the East to West coast.) Some states have Agricultural Inspection stations.

When I opened the hood of her car, and the Trunk. you would of thought that I had been Caught Importing Drugs, Guns, or Illegal Aliens.  It was one of those "up against the wall" moments as I had two agents Cleaning all the Pine Needles and Maple Whirly-gigs out of every Nook and Cranny of the CAR…..  They were telling me how much this was an issue reading me the Agricutural Guidelines…….. When they were satisfied that I had no more issues, they allowed me to "RE-Pack the car, and go on my way.  "The Frigging funny thing was" The whole time they were admonishing me, they were throwing the needles and stuff on the parking lot to Blow in the 30mph Wind…..So what did it matter if they were in my car if it was that much of an issue whouldn't they have been using "Bio-Hazards Bags, or Vacuums?…… One of the Agents said where did you get all these Pine Needles and Pine seeds…. to which I replied. " If you had read my Drivers License correctly, I live on "Pine Needle Drive, in Georgia."

 

ignition switch arrived and didn't fix the problem. quite disheartening to see the state of the wiring behind the ignition switch


although the car did fire without me hearing the fuel pump..


also any ideas where this loose strap should go? its fix to the corner or the rocker cover attached to nothing

oof thats probably the worst one ive seen!  I would say chances are good that the bodgery here is to blame, or whatever alarm/immobiliser that has been wired in is playing up. that chocolate block definitely needs to go!

Get all the tape off and inspect the quality of the joints underneath. I wouldnt hold out much hope that the work you find underneath will be any good from the state of it…  when doing this just note the red wire is permanent live so dont let it short to anything else while you're working on it.  If you unplug the switch you might have enough slack to pull it out from behind the knee bar

some kjet fuel relays dont prime the pump so that would be normal, but they should always run while cranking.

that strap goes to one of the bolts holding the coil in place

I have had the car for 11 years
the alarm/immobiliser was remove by an auto electrician about 9 years ago. so its been like that for a while..

The fuel pump has always primed on key turn, I have had the car for so long and had all the interior out a few times so come to notice when its not there

and he left it like that?!? I hope you didnt pay much money...

rubjonny said

and he left it like that?!? I hope you didnt pay much money…

still have the receipt!


I actually bought my clocks of you (rubjonny) quite a few years ago :-)

which set? i remember going thru a few before i found a set i liked

for starters I woudl want to trace that random cut wire and fix/remove it, get rid of that chocolate block, and check all the wire taps to make sure all is good.

the main one to look at though is the thicker black wire on the switch pin 15, this one powers the coil

yeah I bought some late cabby clocks off you cause my MFA and lights weren't working properly

think I need to set aside a few hours to go through all the wires and loose ends. still got me heater matrix to swap out yet too :-(