Public Sector Strike (Teachers)

Things/times conditions change though, yes i chose my  "profession" unskilled manual labour because i hated school and couldnt wait to leave, manufacturing jobs were then readily available but have declined over the years and with the influx of foreign labour over recent years i have found it impossible to get a decent job with the wages /perks i once could, now i didnt go on strike, start a post about it i just put my thoughts after this one was started, someone does seem to be taking the whole thing a bit personally though.

walt said

 


The mere existance of this thread offends me to the pitt of my stomache!

then why keep commenting on it so much.

Just for the record I have a mortgage. I also have a job and a business. I also have kids. I also signed a contract (no pension allowance). I have also had to stomach a 10% pay cut nearly two years ago. I also got annoyed but and it's a big one. I looked at the world plus the employment situation and took the level view that I was better off with a job paying less rather than no job at all

Since then I've worked my arse off and attained promotion which has helped me claw back my 10%. I didn't go on strike.

Kids come first mate and if anyone finds this thread offensive they are entitled to click elsewhere. All I was looking for was some intelligent debate and an insight in to what people think.

T

walt said

I take it the majority of you are paying a mortgage?.. How about the government decide that in order to pay for the county's debt, that you no longer get your house after paying for a mortgage for years and years?.. How would you like that?.. And have all the people who live in council or rented accomodation coming onto chat forums to tell you that you don't deserve what you have been paying for and planning for all your lives, saying that you should feel lucky to have a roof over your head!.. Because its just the same!..

The mere existance of this thread offends me to the pitt of my stomache!

agree

We're all entitled to our own opinions. Although reverse snobbery is not attractive. Why is it that you believe anyone living in rented accommodation has less right to an opinion? This alone marginalizes many of the teachers you're attempting to defend. Perhaps your post has confused messages. If I've not followed then I apologies.

Regardless a quick skim through some if the replies to ANY thread on this site should illustrate how important it is to make the most of every school day available.

Finally, just to reiterate a previously made point, this thread is not about teachers exclusively, it's too easy to focus on teachers. In face it was supposed to be about Public Sector workers in general. The poll was about teachers. Besides I only hope you're as understanding when the rubbish collection in your area is effected and you're knee deep in rubbish in steaming hot August.

T

My analogy using houses and whether or not you rent or are buying was not meant to make class the issue.. But the principal of having something stolen from you, that you have paid for, to the joy of those who may considder themselves less fortunate, is the issue I was trying to say is very very wrong..

Thank god i have a mortgage as well or i would be feeling very belittled, at no time did i express joy at teachers problems, but as i have to live with my problems then they have to live with theirs, no sympathy.

walt said

My analogy using houses and whether or not you rent or are buying was not meant to make class the issue.. But the principal of having something stolen from you, that you have paid for, to the joy of those who may considder themselves less fortunate, is the issue I was trying to say is very very wrong..

Regrettably your analogy isn't very accurate to say the least. That aside, an analogy is only worthwhile if it helps to make or clarifies a point. This simply goes to confuse the argument.

Anyway what we're looking at here is life in action. Things and times change, if we don't change with them then we are lost. The human species is very adaptable but unfortunately along with this adaptability comes a selfish streak a mile wide. The teachers (who went on strike) are simply looking after number one. I look forward to the first strike that isn't deeply rooted in a selfish preoccupation with personal financial gain.

It's all just growing pains, something I would of imagined a teacher would of been more familiar with.

T

Tian said

Just for the record I have a mortgage. I also have a job and a business. I also have kids. I also signed a contract (no pension allowance). I have also had to stomach a 10% pay cut nearly two years ago. I also got annoyed but and it's a big one. I looked at the world plus the employment situation and took the level view that I was better off with a job paying less rather than no job at all

Since then I've worked my arse off and attained promotion which has helped me claw back my 10%. I didn't go on strike.

Kids come first mate and if anyone finds this thread offensive they are entitled to click elsewhere. All I was looking for was some intelligent debate and an insight in to what people think.

T

I am with you on this one T :wink:

allana13 said

Tian said

Just for the record I have a mortgage. I also have a job and a business. I also have kids. I also signed a contract (no pension allowance). I have also had to stomach a 10% pay cut nearly two years ago. I also got annoyed but and it's a big one. I looked at the world plus the employment situation and took the level view that I was better off with a job paying less rather than no job at all

Since then I've worked my arse off and attained promotion which has helped me claw back my 10%. I didn't go on strike.

Kids come first mate and if anyone finds this thread offensive they are entitled to click elsewhere. All I was looking for was some intelligent debate and an insight in to what people think.

T

I am with you on this one T :wink:

I am not!! And as for my analogy, it may be confusing to you, but it makes perfect sense to me. If you pay into an agree'd fund, it should not be taken from you.. And just because someone else doesn't have what you have been paying for, is no reason to imply that change should come in the shape of the removal of that which you have been paying for and they haven't!!.. How can you not understand that?..

If we all need to take a hit, then hit everyone, simply increase a tax which we all have to pay VAT for example.. Dipping into a certain group of peoples pension funds is like dipping into a certain group of peoples bank accounts and I disagree with that wholeheartedly too! Do you understand that analogy?.. Its a bit more simple than the last one!

To say the teachers are just looking out for number one is grossly unfair and insulting as it makes them seem selfish and greedy.. They never asked for anything.. Only to keep what is rightfully theirs..

This thread was designed to be offensive and antagonistic.. And I'll click on whatever I want.. I don't need any of you to tell me what I should or shouldn't be clicking on.. If you wanted a discussion with people who only agree with you, you shouldn't open up topics like this!

the strikes will achive nothing

there are far more parts of the public sector that have had equal cuts

we all need to face up to the fact that labour spent and gave away far to much money, we now have to get this back and the only way is with cuts. tis the way of the world

if you live behond your means at home you end up in the debt, you then have to pay that off

that what the conserveative are doing now

this months the limelight is on the teachers, next month it will someone esle getting they pay frozen or cut

It might make sense to you but if it makes no sense to me then it is not communication and I thought that was what this was all about.  

Okay, so communication has broken down therefore, I'll let you have the last word matey.

All I will say is a wiser man than me once said, 'argue for progress, not personal gain'. Something I always try to remember

T

I'm a Secondary Design & Technology Teacher and challenge any one who says we don't work hard to come and spend a week with me.
 
When I signed up to become a Teacher, yes I joined a well paid profession with good holidays and a good pension. This is the reward for this profession. I had to have a Degree etc but why can't we fight for what we have or about to lose. Surely you'd all fight for what you believe in or for what you'd agreed to. And to all of you who are moaning about how your career choice isn't as well paid as mine, get a Degree, do some Teacher training and become a Teacher. I'd like to see how long you'd last and how your opinions would change.

Last week I was assaulted by a 12 year old. He head butted me then punched me in the face 3 times splitting my lip and knocking my Porsche glasses off and he then stamped on them wrecking them. Now I work in the workshops and am not a small bloke by any means but I was attacked because I was trying to stop him attacking a girl who'd told him that his drawing wasn't any good.

Please don't mention this to me at the AGM as I want to have a good time and not listen to everybody's opinion on what a moaning, over paid, ungrateful waste I am.

And for your information I was not on strike.

Mate please free to comment no probs.

If tomorrow my boss came up to me saying i have to take a pay cut i have no choice to accept it or leave the job.

I will get the sack if i even mentioned about going on a strike

I'll add my thoughts here.

I come from a family of teachers. My sister is currently a head teacher of a primary school and my mum, dad and auntie are retired teachers.

All my life I have heard about this and that that they had to put up with. My dad worked long hours, leaving the house before my breakfast, home by tea time but spent the evenings marking books. Mum did pretty much the same.

School holidays were plentiful and we had enjoyed getting away in the caravan.

BUT, the holidays were traded off by lack of contact time with my parents. During term time both of them would be marking the childrens exercise books. I recall watching Dallas as mum sat with a pile of books, going through them - Dallas was on at 8pm and she was still going at 10pm. (My sister was doing the same at 9.30pm the other night when I called round).

Wimbledon week and EVERY final reminds me of mum doing the end of year reports for every child in her class - around 30 of them. Hand written in those days - sat watching the tennis.

Weekends could be taken up at school fates, fund raising etc. The amount of phone calls that they (and me as the human answerphone) took connected with work were numerous.

Now, some of the posts previously have the view that teachers work 9-3pm, clock off and go home. That's not right. There are lessons to prepare, parents to see who are concerned about their childs progress, after school clubs etc and those can run until 6pm. (Then they still have marking to do).

Then there are weekend camping sessions, climbing, walking etc that they take them away on to give the children experiences of life - at a cost far below what parents could buy a similar package for - thereby giving the students exposure to new things.

You may think I'm standing up for the teachers but when I try and explain my job to my sister and she's no idea about my job.

I can be ready to finish my 8-4 shift, expecting to be home by 4.30 and a nice evening polishing the car or going to a meet or something. What quite often happens is a job will come in and I have to stay on until midnight but be back the next day at 8am with the possibility of another long shift.
Yes I get overtime for it but family meals etc. are spoilt and frequesntly missed. If I try and explain all this to my sister it simply doesn't compute and she can't understand when I say that I'll pop round if I'm not working.
Those of you who say 'Ah but you signed up for that work are quite right AND I also signed for with the conditions of service attached to it - but those are being fiddled with and eroded.

What I'm trying to say is that people do not understand other peoples jobs - unless they've actually DONE them or lived with the exposure to them for a long time.

As far as conditions go and strikes. Not ALL teachers will go on strike, my daughters school carried on despite the union advising to take action. Why? Because the childrens education comes first and they realise that parents are also in a diffucult position.

What I'd rather see  is for the government to honuor the conditions of service that those servants of the crown signed up for whether that be teachers, armed services, police, health care etc.
I signed up for 30 years police service, not thinking about changing my job for one that was better paid because it was a steady, regulary pay. That and its jolly good locking up nasty people!   . I'll never be mega rich but the pension - THAT I'VE PAID INTO AT 11%  - will see that my retirement is ok. NOW, as I have 7 years left to serve, the government is looking at extending my 30 contract. I can not take action because the police aren't allowed. And I beter EVERY person on here is glad they can't - imagine the chaos if they could!!!

I'm lucky because I'm not a 'frontline' uniform officer dealing with drunks, fights etc on a daily basis but can you imagine being 60 years of age and taking on a fit 18 year old high on booze, drugs and suffering from mental health issues. It is madness to expect people to perform such roles.

So while this thread started off about teachers, the real issues are about ALL public service employees who will have their conditions of service / pensions changed for the worse. Things will only get worse and the only people who don't seem to be suffering are those who take all the services that they can get, housing, benefits, health care etc while contributing nothing back.

Government needs to listen and take stock and the teachers, being a powerful union make a real forceful body. The police have their hands tied and are relatively powerless in having their demands listened to.

At the end of the day the old quote still rings true….

"If you can read this, thank a teacher".

Dan

bravo my friend  :clap:

Been on my hols and just catching up I see that Walt has left the club over this thread :-(

This is not just a public sector issue.
Walt, I like to understand more about how signing up for a public sector job means that the pension conditions are fixed for life. Market forces change, the economy changes, so something had to give.
In the private sector company that I work for, last year if you were 52 or older and had been in the company for 20+ years then you had your pension screwed, it went from final salary to stock Market based contributions. A significant life changing loss for those involved. They could not strike, a sacking would follow. Most have grin and beared it and either rode it out, replanned or changed jobs.
What was really annoying to most is that it was nothing really to do with funding pensions, it was more about reducing costs and making the shareholders happy…
I appreciate the work of teachers my Dad was one for 25 years and I know the amount of out of hours work he did was huge, if he was with us today I know he would struggle with the kid hitting a teacher scenario, in my day it would have resulted in 10 strikes of the cane and then another lot when I got home !!!

Walt I hope you read this, I had only just met you and was looking forward again to chatting at the AGM.

lhasadreams said

I see that Walt has left the club over this thread :-(

That's a joke right! So much for debate.

Seriously, Walt will be reading this thread and itching to reply I guarantee it.

T :wink:

Tian said

lhasadreams said

I see that Walt has left the club over this thread :-(

That's a joke right!

T

Apparentley not,

I have a pm waiting to be read and I put out a shout for him.

It was conveyed he has left the Club over the debate.

It's a shame when Heated Political issues raise people's passion.

I hope Walt will reconsider his leaving the Club & come to the AGM.

I was going to tap him up for a lift in the Rivage on the drive out too.

I will be in The Polo this year  :cry:  
 :cry: