K-Jet conversion

Doe anyone know a good place to get an engine converted to from K-jet to something more modern? QC seem to be booked up for over a year.

More modern or more powerful?

Early-1800 said

More modern or more powerful?

Modern.

I'm thinking dumping the K-Jet and going with Megasquirt and my old Digifant injectors, but I'm not sure about the reliability of Megasquirt.

The other thing would be to sell everything and go for an ABF.

Neither will end up more reliable.

K-Jet is pretty good, once its sorted out properly. After all it was chosen by VW and many others, at the time, and served well for that period.

ABF conversion is always going to be a lash up in some way or another, and is still old (like….30 years instead of 40 years). Also, its not OBD2 so it just needs a different bunch of specialist tools to diagnose etc.

Megasquirt? Completely aftermarket, how on earth are you going to find a garage who wants to fix that when it goes wrong?

K-jet is pants for reliability.
I've never heard anyone say "K-Jet is good" without "once you" "so long as" "you just have to"
It my have been chosen by VW, but it was also dumped by them too. For good reason.

10 years is a long time when computers are involved.

In what way is an ABF a "lash-up"?

The "how are you going to fix it" argument doesn't really hold much weight, as it comes from those with old systems that need to be fixed all the time.

That's thing with modern systems… You don't have to fix them all the time!

Thought you had 16v swap anyway and not the original DX K-Jet?

I would think any 40 year old mechanical/electrical/vaccuum device that's cycled between red hot and ice cold, kept out in the damp, covered 100,000s miles and tinkered with by people who have no idea would play up occasionly.

K-jet is fanastically relaible and economical compared to carbs (my MK2 Drivers Pooberg 2E2 went wrong at £100s every year) and later multivalve/turbo/ECU/dual mass flywheel/catalyst/lamda/DPF engines festooned with electrickery that needs a man with a mainframe computer on £200 a hour to tell you which £500 dealer only component needs swapping.

Early-1800 said

Thought you had 16v swap anyway and not the original DX K-Jet?

I do. Also have the 1.8 2H/PB
I thought ABF was Digi 3???

Early-1800 said

I would think any 40 year old mechanical/electrical/vaccuum device that's cycled between red hot and ice cold, kept out in the damp, covered 100,000s miles and tinkered with by people who have no idea would play up occasionly.

Sure, I agree.

When did they stop making them, 80s?
The newest one you're gonna get will be 30 years and have gone through exactly what you describe. It will also be subject to mk1 tax and vastly overpriced.

Early-1800 said

K-jet is fanastically relaible and economical compared to carbs (my MK2 Drivers Pooberg 2E2 went wrong at £100s every year)…

Sure, carbs are even worse. Would definitely take K-Jet over them, but I'm not sure I see your point.

Early-1800 said

 
…and later multivalve/turbo/ECU/dual mass flywheel/catalyst/lamda/DPF engines festooned with electrickery that needs a man with a mainframe computer on £200 a hour to tell you which £500 dealer only component needs swapping.

I don't buy that. When my golf is dead, I borrow a bog standard Ford Focus from 2013. It's never had a single engine problem.

Before that was P reg Golf 1.6.
1 Issue in its ownership. Dead ECU relay - £20 fix.

Digi Golf mk1. No issues. Starts in under a second even if it's -5C.

I totally get that K-Jet is fine if you are good with mechanics, and you don't mind carrying a lot of spares in the boot. And sure it's responsive and good for power.

Since having K-Jet I feel like I'm back in a time where cars braking down was the norm. The difference is that no one stocks the parts, and garages don't want to touch it. I've even been turned down by old boys who were talking about XR3is "back in the day."

I don't see that digital is any harder to fix, unless you are very familiar with older systems and shy of computers.
Problem with the ECU? Plug another in. They're small light and cost about £40.
My K-jet has an ECU anyway. Doesn't seem to do much though.

Not sure comparing a 7year old car to a 40 year old car is fair. When modern cars are 40 years old you really have problems with all the tech going wrong. A MK1 K-Jet is as basic a wheel barrow and still goes wrong so they have no chance. In fact I think 90s cars will be the last that make it to classic status as vehicles after that simply won't be able to be repaired by ordinary people for modest £ amounts, added to the fact that these days cars are white goods and are thrown away instead of being repaired

Sure you can put a later engine in a MK1 and upgrade the brakes, fit 20 inch alloys and rubber band tyres on coil overs and flip flap fanny paint, quilted plastic leather interior, gold window tints and LED strobes but then its not a MK1 anymore.

 a

the_whip said

Early-1800 said

Thought you had 16v swap anyway and not the original DX K-Jet?

I do. Also have the 1.8 2H/PB
I thought ABF was Digi 3???

Early-1800 said

I would think any 40 year old mechanical/electrical/vaccuum device that's cycled between red hot and ice cold, kept out in the damp, covered 100,000s miles and tinkered with by people who have no idea would play up occasionly.

Sure, I agree.

When did they stop making them, 80s?
The newest one you're gonna get will be 30 years and have gone through exactly what you describe. It will also be subject to mk1 tax and vastly overpriced.

Early-1800 said

K-jet is fanastically relaible and economical compared to carbs (my MK2 Drivers Pooberg 2E2 went wrong at £100s every year)…

Sure, carbs are even worse. Would definitely take K-Jet over them, but I'm not sure I see your point.

Early-1800 said

 
…and later multivalve/turbo/ECU/dual mass flywheel/catalyst/lamda/DPF engines festooned with electrickery that needs a man with a mainframe computer on £200 a hour to tell you which £500 dealer only component needs swapping.

I don't buy that. When my golf is dead, I borrow a bog standard Ford Focus from 2013. It's never had a single engine problem.

Before that was P reg Golf 1.6.
1 Issue in its ownership. Dead ECU relay - £20 fix.

Digi Golf mk1. No issues. Starts in under a second even if it's -5C.

I totally get that K-Jet is fine if you are good with mechanics, and you don't mind carrying a lot of spares in the boot. And sure it's responsive and good for power.

Since having K-Jet I feel like I'm back in a time where cars braking down was the norm. The difference is that no one stocks the parts, and garages don't want to touch it. I've even been turned down by old boys who were talking about XR3is "back in the day."

I don't see that digital is any harder to fix, unless you are very familiar with older systems and shy of computers.
Problem with the ECU? Plug another in. They're small light and cost about £40.
My K-jet has an ECU anyway. Doesn't seem to do much though.

K-jet was replaced with Digifant for emissions reasons more than anything else. All told, its definitely not as complicated as later fuel injection systems with their many many sensors, many more wires and computers etc.

Any Mk1 Golf fitted with an ABF engine is going to be a conversion of varying quality, that means non-standard wiring lengths, colours, etc and about 30 electrical connections of varying quality - maybe they used scotchlock connectors, maybe they did it better. Who knows? Similarly, any megasquirt conversion will be the same. There is no single, standard way to fit and wire them up (unlike say OBD2 which at least partially addresses this with a standardised protocol and diagnostic connector). And its the wiring which will probably stop you in your tracks, rather than any of the major components itself.

Of course K-Jet is outdated but only because of the constant evolution of regulations, only a small percentage of which is actually of benefit to motorists. It does the job, is reliable, well-understood (by people who understand it….) and doesn't drift out of tune like carbs or wear out if its in reasonable condition. A garage which turns down work for a K-Jet car will probably also turn down an ABF or Megasquirt converted car.

the_whip said

I don't buy that. When my golf is dead, I borrow a bog standard Ford Focus from 2013. It's never had a single engine problem.

I guess its not the 1.0 Ecoboost then.

Wow, this is the mk1 maximalist nonsense this forum is famous (and laughed at) for… Just bizarre.

Early-1800 said

Not sure comparing a 7year old car to a 40 year old car is fair. When modern cars are 40 years old you really have problems with all the tech going wrong. A MK1 K-Jet is as basic a wheel barrow and still goes wrong so they have no chance. In fact I think 90s cars will be the last that make it to classic status as vehicles after that simply won't be able to be repaired by ordinary people for modest £ amounts, added to the fact that these days cars are white goods and are thrown away instead of being repaired

What you seem to be saying is that of course newer is better, but it's an unfair comparison.
 I don't need it to be fair; I need it to work!
Who cares what it will be like in 40 year's time? Petrol will probably be banned, and I'll probably be dead.

Early-1800 said

Sure you can put a later engine in a MK1 and upgrade the brakes, fit 20 inch alloys and rubber band tyres on coil overs and flip flap fanny paint, quilted plastic leather interior, gold window tints and LED strobes but then its not a MK1 anymore.

Not this again…
Who decides what is or isn't a mk1, you?

Everyone seems to have their own definition.
Mk4 engine, fine. Change to mk2 dash… omg, it's not a real mk1!!!
Electric windows, not a real Golf. Complete new interior and seats, fine.

It's all nonsense.

paul_c said

Any Mk1 Golf fitted with an ABF engine is going to be a conversion of varying quality, that means non-standard wiring lengths, colours, etc and about 30 electrical connections of varying quality - maybe they used scotchlock connectors, maybe they did it better. Who knows? Similarly, any megasquirt conversion will be the same. There is no single, standard way to fit and wire them up (unlike say OBD2 which at least partially addresses this with a standardised protocol and diagnostic connector). And its the wiring which will probably stop you in your tracks, rather than any of the major components itself.

Wire termination? The problem is wire termination?

I have no words.




 

On any other forum it's just accepted…
Digi for reliability, K-Jet for responsiveness and maximum power.
Useful decisions continue from there.

Why are people so against new tech here? Not one mention of a mk3 starter with an 020 box. So much better than the mk1/2 starter.

You've answered your own question, if you want turn-key reliability you drive a new car. Not a modified ,15 owner, 200,0000 mile, 40 year old one.


 

the_whip said

Wow, this is the mk1 maximalist nonsense this forum is famous (and laughed at) for… Just bizarre.

Early-1800 said

Not sure comparing a 7year old car to a 40 year old car is fair. When modern cars are 40 years old you really have problems with all the tech going wrong. A MK1 K-Jet is as basic a wheel barrow and still goes wrong so they have no chance. In fact I think 90s cars will be the last that make it to classic status as vehicles after that simply won't be able to be repaired by ordinary people for modest £ amounts, added to the fact that these days cars are white goods and are thrown away instead of being repaired

What you seem to be saying is that of course newer is better, but it's an unfair comparison.
 I don't need it to be fair; I need it to work!
Who cares what it will be like in 40 year's time? Petrol will probably be banned, and I'll probably be dead.

Early-1800 said

Sure you can put a later engine in a MK1 and upgrade the brakes, fit 20 inch alloys and rubber band tyres on coil overs and flip flap fanny paint, quilted plastic leather interior, gold window tints and LED strobes but then its not a MK1 anymore.

Not this again…
Who decides what is or isn't a mk1, you?

Everyone seems to have their own definition.
Mk4 engine, fine. Change to mk2 dash… omg, it's not a real mk1!!!
Electric windows, not a real Golf. Complete new interior and seats, fine.

It's all nonsense.

paul_c said

Any Mk1 Golf fitted with an ABF engine is going to be a conversion of varying quality, that means non-standard wiring lengths, colours, etc and about 30 electrical connections of varying quality - maybe they used scotchlock connectors, maybe they did it better. Who knows? Similarly, any megasquirt conversion will be the same. There is no single, standard way to fit and wire them up (unlike say OBD2 which at least partially addresses this with a standardised protocol and diagnostic connector). And its the wiring which will probably stop you in your tracks, rather than any of the major components itself.

Wire termination? The problem is wire termination?

I have no words.




 

Early-1800 said

You've answered your own question, if you want turn-key reliability you drive a new car. Not a modified ,15 owner, 200,0000 mile, 40 year old one.

I agree. A 40 year old car won't give you turn key reliability. A newer one will.

This is exactly why I want to put the innards of a newer car in the chassis of an older one.

well do what suits yourself but what
a topic interesting reading

the_whip said

K-jet is pants for reliability.
I've never heard anyone say "K-Jet is good" without "once you" "so long as" "you just have to"
It my have been chosen by VW, but it was also dumped by them too. For good reason.

10 years is a long time when computers are involved.

In what way is an ABF a "lash-up"?

The "how are you going to fix it" argument doesn't really hold much weight, as it comes from those with old systems that need to be fixed all the time.

That's thing with modern systems… You don't have to fix them all the time!

more than vag used the cis system

Well in my opion there are those who can fix
the problem or just give up why ask for help
if you know more, why ask for advice

Fair enough if it were a "newer is better" comparison - a 10 year old Mk6 is going to be better than a 20 year old Mk4; and a 30 year old Digifant Mk2 GTI is (probably) going to be better than a 40 year old Mk1 GTI on K-Jet.

However there's 2 dimensions to this - the Mk1 Golf GTI (hatchback) only came with K-Jet so any comparison of a Mk1 with a newer engine (of any variant) is going to be a modified car. And history reveals that there is a wide range of issues in that aspect itself.

Its a shame that older cars (carbs as well as older FI) are so poorly served by the average garage - they are simpler so it should be the reverse. But there's plenty of know-how on K-Jet (and carbs) out there from specialists.

ETA the standard vs modified debate is long running; but I'm fairly neutral on it anyway. I'll I'm saying is, don't just assume a more modern engine or fuel injection is going to solve previously difficult issues (and it might raise its own), nor will it be plain sailing (there will be an amount of teething troubles, a lot of components are changed or removed/refitted etc). Do your research, look at what the cost of conversion could "buy you" in other avenues etc too. The ABF conversion is a nice one when done well.

K-jet was brilliant back in the 80,s when lots of cars still used old fashioned carbs. But unless originality is your thing i see no reason to use it now, along with the old fashioned 8 valve engine....