help please asap

well as a few of you know, i have my mk1 gl auto on the road now after 4 years sat in the garage!

we're having a few probs when she gets to highers speeds she looses a lot of power and occassionally cuts out completely. we have changed the fuel filter umpteen times as it is filling with rubbish. have also cleaned the carb & sorted the filler neck - hopefully preventing anymore rust getting in.

we have come to the conclusion that we should bypass the " fuel purge reservoir" / vapour separator. This seems to be something only fitted on 1.5 models (my gx has one too). the part is apparently no longer available and we need her running better for dubfreeze tomorrow.

Does anyone feel this is not a good idea?

Also this may be a dumb question but in the haynes manual they never seem to mention weber carbs, but both my gl auto and the gx have them, i just wondered if these were factory standards?

cheers for any speedy help

rewth

Are you sure its fuel related? It sounds it is, but its worth being sure. The only real way to do this would be to observe the fuel flow during running, eg you'd have to rig the car up on a rolling road. Or perhaps you can be lucky and simulate the fault while its sitting on your drive. You'd need to install a clear piece of fuel line somewhere in the system, as close to the carburettor as possible.

It does sound like contamination in the fuel system, including the "fuel purge reservoir/vapour separator". There's only one real way to solve this, which is to thoroughly flush it out. You might be able to save removing the fuel tank if you can drain it, then reach into it by removing the level sender (under rear seat).

I agree with Paul_c and I think you have answered your own question. The constantly clogged filters are due to muck in the tank. The strainer inside the tank is becoming blocked as you drive and at higher speeds is restricting the flow enough to cause the engine die.

Remove the hatch under rear seat and fuel level sender and shine in a torch. If it is full of debris the only real fix is to remove the tank and swill it all out.
 :cry:

The orginal carb would have been a Pierburg, the Weber will be a later replacement. I'm sure somewhere on 'tinternet there will be some documentation. :dontknow:

thanks you lot. we know what we're going to do in the long run, just hoping bypassing this reservoir will help for our longer journey tomorrow

Hi,my GX had this problem,the carburettor was icing up at high speeds usually on a motorway,the cold air intake was seized and would not switch over to the hot air off the manifold,and the carb would ice up and it would die and then cut out,when the ice had melted (5 mins on hard shoulder) it would start up and run perfect until it iced again,took alot to figure it out,never happened at normal speeds around town,only motorway,if you need a quick fix,force the flap to the hot intake position and block the cold intake up with a thick plastic bag and a cable tie,dont use flimsy plastic as it will rip (carrier bag)
The tank cleaning is easy,i remove the sender and suck the fuel out through a filter with a electric pump off a xr3i,all the crap comes with it,saves taking the tank off (rear beam too  8O )
Cheers bert

dubgrrl

Before you go grap some fuel system cleaner [Redex or similar] from your local Garage / halfords etc . This will help [if you give it a good dose] to clean out some of the muck in the system and send it out via the exhaust . It does work .  

Then as the lads have said it looks like a tank flush is required  :dontknow:    

The tank cleaning is easy,i remove the sender and suck the fuel out through a filter with a electric pump off a xr3i,all the crap comes with it,saves taking the tank off

I like berts idea for flushing , i used an AIR powered grit blast gun with an extended pick up hose to do mine , works just like a hoover , but being air powered is without the dangers . It sucked out loads of rusty bits and what looked like gravel  8O all via the sender unit hole .  

Cheers………..

if you bypass the fuel vapouriser, you best have a fuel tanker following you! done this on mine, i done roughly on a good full tank briming it to the top of the filler neck, roughly about 50-60miles to a full tank! and i was doing this for about 2wks untill i could get hold of one. and my god was i skint!!
the fuel vapouriser mainly gets all the air bubbles etc out ofthe fuel but its other mainjob is to chuck any unwantd fuel bk into the tank, as your fuel pump will easily pump3-4 litres in a min or so.  so this just restricts the flow of it a little bit.
none in stock anywhere, tell me about it i had the last ever one in the uk last week apperently cost me 17pounds, vdubb dealers wantd 79quid and 3 wks to get me one imported. i havwe the pierburg part number if you want it
4.07303.21.0
best bet is to go scrappy see if you can pick one up there, personaly i wouldnt pay for one from there as you never know if its in a servicable condition. so if you need anything else from a scrappy then you can alwaysplace it in your pocket an forget about it when gointo pay, not incoureging anything  :wink:
hope this helps,

simon

hi all thanks for the help!

the vapouriser thingy is now an ex vapouriser! i hadnt read your last post simon beofre he did it. oh well, shall have to see what happens. my gx has one on it so i suppose if we really need it, i shall take it off there until i need one for the gx - buys me some time!

did the redex jobby last weekend and it did make an improvement.

hubby is out now taking her for a test run. he also got the heaters working which is always a bonus

the fuel vapouriser mainly gets all the air bubbles etc out ofthe fuel but its other mainjob is to chuck any unwantd fuel bk into the tank, as your fuel pump will easily pump3-4 litres in a min or so. so this just restricts the flow of it a little bit.

It's not a fuel pressure reguator you know.  How could it purse unwanted fuel back to the tank - it only has two connections.  One from the tank and one to the carburettor.

The car is on a Weber carb so any "unwanted" fuel will be stopped at the needle valve at the float chamber and sent back down the fuel return.

If your case Simon, I'd suggest that the best route would be to replace your purge chamber with a Filter King bowl two regulator.  These have an inbuilt filter and removable clear glass bowl so you can see when the filter is silted up and do something about it.  I run one on my highly modified Driver.

Paul - I am constantly gobsmacked by the shear bizzareness of your advice, do you know PoloC off PVW?  A rolling road session?  To assess fuel flow?  With a clear section of pipe in the fuel line?  WHAT?!?

Why spend ?30 per hour for time on the rollers when simply running and revving the engine WITH THE CAR OUT OF GEAR will let you watch the fuel coming from the tank, to the carb and back down the fuel lines.

Bad advice costs money, other peoples money.  Bear this in mind BEFORE you share the apparent "benefit of your experience" with other please.

I agree with Paul_c and I think you have answered your own question. The constantly clogged filters are due to muck in the tank. The strainer inside the tank is becoming blocked as you drive and at higher speeds is restricting the flow enough to cause the engine die.

In what way is the question "can I remove the fuel vapor purge trap from the inlet line on my Mk1 Golf 1.5?" andswered by the response "Yes, you have rust in your fuel filters."?

NOTE on the subject of contaminated fuel - if you think you may have rust and silt in your fuel tank, it is important to avoid letting the amount of fuel in your tank reach the very bottom as this will pick up the muck from the bottom of the tank and suck it down the fuel lines.  Always refil as soon as your gauge gets low.

ADDITIONALLY - If the car dies again, quickly (and safely aware of other traffit) jump out and pull the fuel filler cap off.  Listen to the filler neck and if you hear a "WHOOSH" of air - there is a problem with the breathers on the fuel tank.  I personally know Rewths car and can categorically say that in this specific instance this is NOT the problem but it is noteworth for other people experiancing fueling issues.

There are certain scenarios where faults only crop up at high load/speed situations, which cannot be replicated by 'revving' the engine. dubgrrl mentioned that this only happened at higher speeds. The only way to safely troubleshoot this scenario is on a rolling road. So, I'll stand by my rolling road suggestion.

The clear fuel pipe would show only contamination (or air bubbles), not clean fuel passing through it. I don't know why you think its such a bad suggestion - VW fitted clear fuel lines on many of its other vehicles.

The vapour purge trap is not the route cause of the problem. It may improve the situation if it was blocked/dirty, but its only addressing the symptoms, not properly fixing it. How would you feel if she took the car to a garage and simply bypassed a component of the fuel system?

Steve, forums are useful for people to post questions, and invite a range of opinions from others, many who might have had that very same problem, or people just willing to try and help. I think your post(s) are a little too rude and border on personal insult, especially since you don't know me. It is likely to stop people positively contributing if you return posts like the one you just did.

steve, the amount of pointless comments you have made is unreal, i have read a few forums where you think your the king dong!, and get your facts right, the fuel vapouriser has not got two pipes coming of it, it has 3 pipes! one in from the fuel pump, one to the carb and a fuel return to the tank, and did i say it is a fuel regulater, no. i said it gets air bubbles out of the fuel supply as all the air rises to the top of the chamber and flows bk down to the fuel return back in to the tank and it also lets excess fuel bk into the tank to!

so less of your cocky remarks.

sorry moderaters and anyone ive offended but his comments have got on my nerves to long.

anyway back to the aurthor of the post, i hope you have got your beloved golf sorted and running spot on.

simon

there are some good suggestions to possible faults it could be and I would agree with paul about using clear pipe to watch the flow of fuel, in fact if you made it long enough you could route it up near the wipers and watch it from inside the car whilst driving ( on a clear bit of private road of corse ).
Steve I know your from up'norf so you are quite to the point but I really think you should have a deep breath and think about what you write before posting. the point of the forum is for people to suggest possible ideas and the person with the fault can use their own mind to come to the most logical conclusion. There are alot of people with considerable experiance of golfs ( myself over 12 years ) and you are not always right  - neither am I all the time but you need to listern to others and not go off half cocked because you think you know it all

you need to listern to others and not go off half cocked because you think you know it all

:clap:

sim0n_parker said

anyway back to the aurthor of the post, i hope you have got your beloved golf sorted and running spot on.

simon

hello all again.

it seems everyone is slightly hot under the collar since yesterday but iljust get onto the real subject cuz im sure you're all dying to know!

after bypassing the "thingy" all seems much better! not solved but vastly improved. i drove her all the way to stafford today (approx 75m all together) and used about 1/4 of a tank. she also didnt do the loosing power thing at all at high speeds - we've never managed much higher than 70 but today I did do 90 (in a safe fashion blah blah blah).

the only fault which continues is that when slowing eg. reaching a roundabout, she wants to die and i have to pull the choke out a bit, then as soon as we set off again it has to go back in. this is a bit of a pain whilst concentrating on the road etc etc so she did die a few times completely but started back up again straight away. It annoys me as im sure everyone thinks im just a terrible woman driver who keeps stalling. (note to self - buy sticker stating this car is an automatic and does not stall).

we have a few ideas about this and our plan of action is to clean the tank and to get the carb set up properly. someone has mentioned it may be some gaskety thing in or under the carb that has perished.

All in all though, things are definately improving and I thank you all for the help you have given me - look forward to showing her off at Gaydon!

and get your facts right, the fuel vapouriser has not got two pipes coming of it, it has 3 pipes!

YOU want ME to get MY facts right?!?

Hang on a second, Saturday afternoon - telephone conversion between myself and Gaz (Rewths husband) who at the time was stood over the open bonnet of the car in question.

ME: "How many pipes come into/out of that fuel vapour trap thingy?"

GAZ: "There are only two.  Both attached to the top of the canister.  One goes up to the carburettor."

So - bearing in mind the car is running a weber carb which is connected to the fuel return line via it's needle valve, bearing in mind that I have worked on this specific car (this acutal vehicle) on a number of occasions AND bearing in mind that I had the above conversation AND bearing in mind that the only reason I had this conversation was to obtain a second opinion to back up something that a time served VW mechanic has instructed them to do - HOW DO YOU WANT ME TO FURTHER ENSURE THAT I "GET MY FACTS RIGHT"?!?  I don't understand, why am I getting abuse for correcting apparent mis-information from people who believe they know more about the issue than myself when they are memrly dealing in conjecture and hypothesis and I'm dealing in acutal fact.

Simon, your problem is DIFFERENT.  You did not remove a fuel vapor trap.  If there were THREE pipes coming from this item - it was in fact a FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR.  That is why I specifically asked Gaz to check how many pipes were attached to the unit.  I don't see how you, removing a FPR from a Pierburg setup bears any relation at all to removing a vapor trap from a Weber setup.

I am NOT being rude, I am not personally attacking you, I am merely pointing out that on this occasion, you HAVE personally insulted me with accusation of "cocky remarks" - which to be fair were acutally factual, researched, double checked and correct.

As for trying to defend the rolling road suggestion, can you explain to me how fuel pressure would be any different, greater, lesser, etc, with the engine at a specific RPM under load as opposed to free revving at the same RPM - bearing in mind it's a MECHANICAL fuel pump and your suggestion was that you would be able to see silt traveling along the fuel lines.

Now - arguably, it is a possibility that the problem may only manifest when the vehicle is in transit - ie, gravitational forces acting on the fuel load could cause particles in the tank to move around.  If this is the case, a rolling road will NOT highlight this as the vehicle would be stationary!

if you made it long enough you could route it up near the wipers and watch it from inside the car whilst driving ( on a clear bit of private road of corse ).

Why a private road?  Are vehicles immune for catching debis, fractureing fuel hose and bursting into flames whilst not on a public road?

This is a remarkably dangerous idea and you seriously don't want to hear what my Dad said about it!  (He's in the Fire and Rescue service and his comments wern't favourable!)

I don't understand why everytime I come onto the technical pages of this forum and point out incorrect, misinformed and down right dangerous suggestions, why I then get pages and pages of PERSONAL ABUSE for trying to save people alot of time, money and indeed - keep them safe.

As for stalling at junctions - check the condition of the brake servo booster pipe, check the vacuum advance pipe, check the carbuerttor to inlet manifold rubber gasket, check the top of the float chamber, check the float height, have the mixture, idle and ignition advanced set by a garage and the problem should cure itself.

 i have read a few forums where you think your the king dong

Where? - Lets have a look then…

Oh, and shouldn't that read "you're"? - lol

Seriously guys - I'm not trying to upset or offend anyone - I'm not coming on with an attitude of "I'm right and you are wrong" - I'm just trying to ensure that technical information on the site is correct.  I have no ego to massage, I have no agenda, I have no sway with the one upmanship attitude, I just post what I think and that's that.  I'm sure if you met me you'd understand

Can people stop abusing me and just be friendly now please?  I've driven alot of miles today, been awake for hours, had to free two Golf GTI's from a muddy field and all I want to do is talk about Mk1 Golf (MY PASSION AND NUMBER 1 ALL TIME HOBBY) with fellow enthusiasts without being mistaken for being cockey, a know it all or a king dong (whatever that may be!)

*offers out hand for friendly handshake*

:tlc:

doesn't 'king dong' refer to your man hood?  

main thing is, dubgrrl's Mk1 is a little happier the thingy's bypassed

Cheers Phil

Aye - not only is it on the road but today it got a present bought for it.  It was looking very very good parked on the edge of the muddy field (that my Mk1 sunk in - lol)

I'm just happy to see it back on the road in all it's glory - that's my motivation for helping - I love Mk1 Golfs - what more can I say.

Oh - and if my attitude is a bit "DON'T DO THAT" - it comes from a previous job where I used to teach 16-19 year old kids (plus some 14 and 15 year olds that woulnd't stay in school) motor vehicle repair.

When you've got a fully equipped workshop, pit, 4-post lift, hydraulic press, MIG, ARC and Oxy Welding Gear, Tyre fitting and balancing machine and a whole array of very very dangerous air tools coupled with 15 kids that seem intent on mis-behaving, doing things dangerously on purpose or just plain breaking stuff/hurting each other for a laugh - you tend to adopt a pretty severe attitude to, erm, how should I put it…

…erm - "shoddy ideas" - if you know what I'm driving at.

All I want to see is more Mk1 Golfs on the road - safely repaired to a high standard with minimum expense - that is my motivation for posting here and indeed helping out

ok dude, sorry. i had a late night last night and was a bit naffd of, accept my apoligie?

p.s sorry about my spelling and grammer, not my best subject  

don't worry about it Simon - we all have rough nights!  I've terrible spelling and gramar issues too - thanks to bloomin' dyslexia!

The main thing is that we are all after the same thing - working Mk1's!!

You going to any of the big shows this year?  Let me know 'coz we'll have a drink and you'll realise I'm not that bad at all - lol

You wouldn't believe how much I was laughing at "king dong" - I have no idea what it means but I may have to get graphics made up for my sunstrip with it written on!! - lol

Steve_Matthews said

[

if you made it long enough you could route it up near the wipers and watch it from inside the car whilst driving ( on a clear bit of private road of corse ).

Why a private road?  Are vehicles immune for catching debis, fractureing fuel hose and bursting into flames whilst not on a public road?

This is a remarkably dangerous idea and you seriously don't want to hear what my Dad said about it!  (He's in the Fire and Rescue service and his comments wern't favourable!)

I cant see it being any more dangerous than any type tempory repair and if it was joined properly at both ends and routed away from anything hot etc :dontknow:
the reason I suggested a private road was so you could watch the fuel delivery not other cars on the highway - I know some may have problems with doing this, if that is the case then don't do it.

Steve_Matthews said

Seriously guys - I'm not trying to upset or offend anyone - I'm not coming on with an attitude of "I'm right and you are wrong" - I'm just trying to ensure that technical information on the site is correct.  I have no ego to massage, I have no agenda, I have no sway with the one upmanship attitude, I just post what I think and that's that.  I'm sure if you met me you'd understand

Can people stop abusing me and just be friendly now please?  I've driven alot of miles today, been awake for hours, had to free two Golf GTI's from a muddy field and all I want to do is talk about Mk1 Golf (MY PASSION AND NUMBER 1 ALL TIME HOBBY) with fellow enthusiasts without being mistaken for being cockey, a know it all or a king dong (whatever that may be!)

*offers out hand for friendly handshake*

We all share the mk1 passion and all want to see as many as possible still out and about on the roads, lets just stick to trying to keep them going with various solutions :wink: and not make it personnal.
I'm sure if I met you at a show Steve we could have a good chat and drink together