TDI CitiGolf

I`d been thinking of converting my 1994 Citigolf to a TDI for a while, but never really got into it due to lack of funds. untill a few weeks ago my engine blew (1.3 carb - really smokey and missfiring) so i thought go for it , why not.   the donnor car was a 1997 mk3 tdi

I got a 1Z engine box (cablechange-hydraulic clutch) and have swaped bits and bobs over so it should bolt in.

i also got the ecu and cut the loom by the brake servo just before it goes to the bulkhead.

this is what i done so far


but im stuck with the wiring i cant be bothered using more than nesseceary.

does anyone know the bare minimum what do they need to run?

its fly by wire throttle 2 so il probably need to get the pedal box unless anyones got any other suggestions

at mo i got elsawin (vw-audi service software) printouts of the MK3 wiring loom and how to wire that but it seems i need all the stuff from the dash aswell not just the front bit of loom

Did you get the key and immobiliser box as you'll need these to make it run.

There is a vw diesel forum(vw diesel.net)scroll down to the english bit they a have loads of info on the tdi/idi diesels,hope it helps,i know that the tdi is a right nightmare to put in a diff shell,the idi is a lot easier (less wire's and a lot more tuneable) :dontknow:

mrpurple said

Did you get the key and immobiliser box as you'll need these to make it run.

no the bloke had lost the key , i heard custom coding gets rid of the need for the key?

cheers il have a look at that forum now  8)  

i already found a few but no one seems to understand the wiring they just moove it all over (i wanted the bare minimum keep it mk1 ish )

"mrDave"s got quite a good one but stops short of diagrams

You shouldn't need the stuff from the dash should be easy enough to wire up without the dash.  What wires do you have left going through the bulkhead, list the colours and I should be able to tell you where they need to go.

Not sure custom code can remove the immobiliser off the early ecus, never really looked into it though.

You'll need the fbw throttle pedal, should be easy enough to get working on the mk1 pedal though as it's just a small unit with a very short piece of cable attached, I did have one kicking around in my spares pile if you need one, i'll have to check I still have it though if you need it.

The immobiliser is just a box that plug into the wiring harness behind the clocks(have a pic if you want it)and then goes off to the ecu,the key is read by the ring round the ign,my sister lost her only key from an idi diesel and i put the immoibiliser from a tdi into it just because of the cost that vw wanted for the key and then the key reprogramed,even vw say how basic the system is on the ah key code :dontknow:

Any mk3 1 will do as long as you have imm box ,ign ring, and key :dontknow:
and i think that you do need the clocks on the tdi as there is an ecu but not on the idi :dontknow:

Shouldn't need the clocks as they're not part of the immob on the earlier stuff, most of the stuff can be made to work very easily on the mk1 clock with no mods, the only thing that will need a small circuit putting in will be the rev counter but even that should be simple enough.
I've always wondered whether the ecu and immob box were linked on the earlier stuff but never had the need to try swapping stuff about, it would appear not from what you're saying.

ye i heard that the ecu imobaliser and engine were all coded to match each other - dont know how true it is like.

im going to try get the pedal off the scrappy he might let me have it free if im lucky , and i was planing on getting the brake servo to put on the mk1 aswell - iff not il pm you about the pedal.

sound il go and get some pix - and list the coulours in a min

Here is a pic of the immobiliser box,on ALL mk3,it's behind the clocks

here is the fbw control and is attatched by a long bar to the throttle pedal on tdi not idi

as for wiring i not sure, so if it is poss, i would be very intrested to learn with you guys because i plan to do the tdi converstion,and i have a full tdi in bit's and also have the idi diesel that my sister users that i rebuilt from a snaped crankshaft,

cheers for the pix im trying to make a "how to " guide on vagwales.net , might move it to here aswell.

Mr Purple - dont know if you can make any sense of it but these are the wire coulours i`ve got at the end of the loom , as it goes throught the bulkhead:

ive removed a few +12v & earth feeds to the cabin for now because i figured the citi will have its own

also there where a few cables doing absoluteley nuthing lying around so i took them out to

4 brown with blue stripe (earth all join to 1 at ecu)
6 black yellow stripes - one heavier than rest.
1 brown.
1 brown with red stripe
1 brown with white stripe
1 brown with grey stripe
1 heavy duty red with white stripe - leads to the circular engine clip
1 green with white stripe
1 blue with green stripe
1 blue with black stripe
1 blue with white stripe
1 blue with grey stripe
1 pain yellow
1 solid black
1 yellow and blue
1 black and purple
1 yellow with red
1 black with green stripe
1 black with white stripe
1 white with yellow stripe
1 grey with red stripe
1 black with red stripe
1 grey with blue stripe
2  white with blue stripe
1 red and blue
1 red with green stripe
1 red
1 red and white
1 thick brown and white
1 grey and white

theres one green with blue stripe - i think goes to water temp sensor and comes out green and grey  then goes down to ecu

theres a black wire with a yellow stripe going to "X"
and a green with a red stripe going to "P"

I'll go through it tomorrow, away from home working currently and don't have any wiring diagrams with me, should be back home tomorrow aft all being well and i'll have a look then and do my best to tell you where everything should go.

Right, gone through most of the wires, theres a few which i'll need some more info to help you decifer where they need to go to.  I'll list the ecu pin numbers and you'll need to check them against that.  What type of fusebox is the car using?

4 brown with blue stripe (earth all join to 1 at ecu)  -  Which pin number do these goto on the ECU?

6 black yellow stripes - one heavier than rest.        -  Need you to trace where each of these goes to, I could take reasonably educated guesses but could do with being sure.  They're all linked together somewhere as part of the main power supply control.

1 brown.  - Dead easy, main earth.

1 brown with red stripe  - ecu pin 13? Air mass meter, though this may be on the engine loom, let me know on that one please as all the right wire colours are listed here for it.

1 brown with white stripe  - ecu pin 33, Acc pedal pin 6 (To yellow wire on pedal)

1 brown with grey stripe - not sure, where does it come from?

1 heavy duty red with white stripe - leads to the circular engine clip - Live for glow plugs, will need a simple relay circuit building, with a big 4 pin relay, about 40-50A, this wire will goto pin 87, you need a big live feed from a permanent live to goto pin 30.

1 green with white stripe - ecu pin 62, Acc pedal pin 5 (Green wire on pedal)

1 blue with green stripe  - ecu pin 48, Glow plug warning lamp, not overly necessary as your dash won't have one in, but you could put a discrete led or lamp somewhere.

1 blue with black stripe - Oil pressure .3 bar, needs to goto same colour wire in existing loom.

1 blue with white stripe - ecu pin 43, TV13 - I think this is the speed signal to the dash for the MFA, you shouldn't need it.

1 blue with grey stripe - ecu pin 34, MFA, not needed

1 pain yellow - 1.8bar oil pressure switch, needs to be connected to existing wire for oil pressure.

1 solid black - eci pin 38, IGN live

1 yellow and blue - ecu pin 50, part of the glow plug relay you'll have to build, this wire will goto pin 85 and pin 86 needs to be an ign live.

1 black and purple(lilac) - ecu pin 42, you'll also need to build another simple realy circuit for the main ecu power supply, this wire will goto pin 85 on the relay

1 yellow with red - Coolant temp sender, to be linked into your existing dash wiring

1 black with green stripe - ecu pin 2, rev counter, will prob need as simple circuit to get it working as i think all the mk3 stuff has a low output and the mk1 dash will need a high input.

1 black with white stripe - ecu pin 66, part of the MFA

1 white with yellow stripe - ecu pin 20, brake pedal switch, not needed, part of a cruise control system

1 grey with red stripe - ecu pin 55, acc pedal pin 3 (Brown wire on pedal)

1 black with red stripe - ecu pin 44, brake light, again part of a cruise control system and not needed for your use

1 grey with blue stripe - ecu pin 65, acc pedal pin 4 (grey wire on pedal)

2 white with blue stripe - one ecu pin 15, acc pedal pin 1 (white wire on pedal)

• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • one pin 2 from the speedo, not needed as you'll need to run the correct cable for it to work on your dash, (possibly a mk2 G60 speedo cable)

1 red and blue - Where does this goto, can't find it on the diagram

1 red with green stripe - poss Air mass meter
1 red - poss MFA ecu pin 35
1 red and white
1 thick brown and white -  an earth of some descript
1 grey and white
Can't find anything for the rest of these, I only have a diagram for 1z engines up to 96.

thanks m8 your an absolute life saver!  

1 yellow and black goes from cabin to pin 69 ecu
1 thick yellow and black goes from pin 23 ecu to cabin
1 yellow and black goes from pin 63 ecu  to diesel pump
1 thin  yellow and black pin 45 ecu to cabin
2 yellow and black cables go from cabin (i think cant remember now my notes were  shit ) into pin 9 on circular clip on engine.

pin 33 on my ecu has brown with blue stripe - its probably just a coulour change though same job.

brown with grey stripe goes pin 28 ecu

about the glow plug relay, pin 30 is blank on my ecuclip thing  :dontknow: and you said "pin 87" my ecu only has 68 on it  

1 red and blue go to pin 47 ecu

1 white with a rred stripe goes pin 17?
1 grey and  white goes pin 61?


apart from the glowplug relay should it run then (providingi get it maped so  the key isnt needed)

jaycab said

here is the fbw control and is attatched by a long bar to the throttle pedal on tdi not idi


 i seen the one in scrappy`s does this stop once turned or does it carry on and fuck up? i dunno whether to mod my old pedal or to get the pedal box out so i dont have to fiddle with the slave cylinder etc.

good to see some one doing somrthing cool and Diff.

Post us some pics mate.
Cant wait to see the finished car.

Good Luck with the build mate

Cheers

no m8 it just like a throtle body off a car with a cable,and there is just a long bar with a hook on it,that is held against the bulk head with plastic clips,it's not connected to the pedles for clutch and brake, :dontknow:

1 yellow and black goes from cabin to pin 69 ecu –black/yellow,  Pin 68?? Only 68 on ecu, should go to pin 1 on the N75 valve (boost pressure control valve)
1 thick yellow and black goes from pin 23 ecu to cabin – should be black/yellow, main supply control  relay, use a 4 pin relay, pin 87 on relay.  Pin 30 on relay to perm live, pin 85 on relay to black lilac, pin 86 on relay link to pin 30 on relay.
1 yellow and black goes from pin 63 ecu to diesel pump – on my diagram should be yellow with black trace, sometimes they can be a little difficult to tell wire colour.
1 thin yellow and black pin 45 ecu to cabin  -black/yellow, this is listed as going to pump but can’t believe that it would come via the cabin, could be 1 of a number of things as all the black/yellow wires are linked together anyway.
2 yellow and black cables go from cabin (i think cant remember now my notes were *CENSORED*  ) into pin 9 on circular clip on engine.  – black/yellow, need to be linked into the rest of the yellow/black wires, though this is only for the speedo sensor on pin 9 so not really needed for your install.
pin 33 on my ecu has brown with blue stripe - its probably just a coulour change though same job.  – yeah looks like a colour change, basically it’s the earths for – Clutch pedal switch (not needed for your install – brake pedal switch (again not needed for your install) – accel pedal pin 6 (yellow wire on pedal) – air mass meter pin 2.
brown with grey stripe goes pin 28 ecu  - not needed, part of the air con system (coupler on air con pump actuator wire)
about the glow plug relay, pin 30 is blank on my ecuclip thing  and you said "pin 87" my ecu only has 68 on it  - this is the pin numbers on a relay, you’ll have four on a standard relay, 85 & 86 will be the actuator coil (one earth, one live) and the pin 30 on the relay is the feed and pin 87 is the output.

1 red and blue go to pin 47 ecu  - brown/blue on my diagram, goes to pin 2 of the N75 valve

1 white with a rred stripe goes pin 17? – clutch pedal switch ( not needed)
1 grey and white goes pin 61? – This is the feed to the immobilizer unit that you may/may not need

allana13 said

good to see some one doing somrthing cool and Diff.

Post us some pics mate.
Cant wait to see the finished car.

Good Luck with the build mate

Cheers

most of this is copied of VAGWALES.NET in case the writing doesnt make sese
got the engine out fri night as couldnt find time to do it in the day.








by saturday morning










I couldnt get hold of the scrapy so i thought id drain the V-power a little unorthadox meathod il admit…








finaly got the engine and bits sat afternoon








notice the driveshafts and one hub still in because the srapy`s lazy lol , still at least i can check if mk3 ones fit the citi (there vented discs)


after striping some spare weight i managed to get it on my desk
 (flash is fucked up)









and started swaping bits to make it fit…


starting with the engine mounts - below the citi engine showing the castings are the same , the tdi mounting will bolt on and the citi one will bolt on to the tdi …








after a litle thread cleaning at least







then i bent my twating alen key tryingt to take the watter pump pulley off  :x







the situation was the same with the crank pulleys so i used a specialist technique to sort them out









once the capheads were off i could get a grip on the leftover studs happy days





finally got the pulleys and everything off






and gave it a bit of a clean






the mk1 mount fitts like a wet dream







had to put the citi water pump on it to , the cast iron shrink fit bit was cracked from the previous owner detour.







next i put the alternator on (had to get a bracket of a 1.6 d golf mk1 in scrappy`s as the diesel pump is where the alternator should be)












next i started on the gearbox mount


the mk3 one









first thing first i cleaned it





then started triming the mk1 one to size






after a while filing






after examining the turbo i found the compressor seal has gone , it might hav actually caused the previous owner to crash - but highly unlikely that it did lol , i hope not anyway or the engine`l probs be fucked inside …






so i still need to do one mount,  cam belt , tensioner and recondition the turbo , and the engine will be ready, still need to do loads to the car end though , one of the first things il be doing is sorting the wiring (lights indicators etc + my gti steering wheel)

also going to mod the tubine bit of the exhaust as the wastgate goes into a non existant pipe  :x  going to try a screamer pipe, but if its to loud then it`l be welded baack into the exhaust further down the pipe









Im trying to make this "step by step" and list all the problems ive come across incase someone alse fancy`s doing the same conversion.


found some turbo bearings on an american website for $57 but they were out of stock

also ordered a cambelt and managed to get everything to TDC ready to put everything back on.


this little gadget is called an EGR (exhaust gas recirculator  :suspect:  ) so as you`d expect it`s been removed  8) mainly because i cant be arsed to take it off to clean it all the time







the soot all cloged on the inside of theinlet manifold




its quite hard to see but if you look closely you can see all the soot caked on the valve - its got so thick its cracked in too



these cup things (using technical terms again ) are too big to bolt the mk1 cv joints to so i think mk3 cv joints will have to be bolted to mk1 shafts (the gearbox side of each cup apears to be different so i cant swap cups ether)





i also took the heat shield off to clean it because im a little bit sad lol





and replaced the nuts with some fresh ones just because i can.

then i started on the front engine mount

 

notice the fucked starter motor




the mounting is once again a "one off , one on" job so i tryed to fix the tdi startor using the housing off the citi but turns out they were too diferent to mod together - to work on the tdi anyway , if anyone fancy`s a ultra fast starting mk1 gti etc put the armature bit of the tdi one srtraight (2 bolts) on the existing motor housing , even keeps the origional solenoid.



my dry wipe bonnet reminding me of all the little niggly`s i still need to do . ive spent about 10hrs 40mins on it at mo. i could probably add a few hours tidying up after myself each night but im trying to measure actual time working on it

Awesome mate,

Will be watching this thread carefully :mrgreen:

Just a suggestion, if you could clean the engine & the engine bay so all looks nice clean and shiny, just coz u have the engine out now. :wink:

Good Luck mate….

Cheers 8)