Audi 280mm straight fit to mk1 hubs

Hi, i would like to know which vw/audi has the 280mm set up which can be fitted straight to the mk1 hubs without any bracket adaptor mods?

running mk1 hubs? non I belive....

yep as said, non.  only direct fit vag upgrade is 256 carriers from scirocco 16v and old square audi 80, think 'ashes to ashes'  calipers from same car or mk2 16v, or pretty much any vag model with vented 256 calipers will work. just watch out on the newer models the flexi hoses have a different fitting.

280 calipers n carriers from certain vaux models fit, but need vaux pads and flexis.

vaux one also need special shoulder bolts..

This parts for sale advert suggests they just bolt on, after all the parts FS area is for items exclusively for the Mk1 Golf right? I've asked for info/details, but AFAIK there was no bolt on upgrade to 280mm, except for custom brackets.

Paul the problem with the mk1 hubs is that the hub and carrier are all the one piece

on the scirocco and carrado etc
the carrier bolts onto the hub so you can upgrade from 256 to 280 by changing to a taller carrier for the caliper and not changing the hub

wesleyh said

Paul the problem with the mk1 hubs is that the hub and carrier are all the one piece

on the scirocco and carrado etc
the carrier bolts onto the hub so you can upgrade from 256 to 280 by changing to a taller carrier for the caliper and not changing the hub

?????? Not totally accurate (AFAIK)

On the Mk1 and the Scirocco, the hub carrier and caliper carrier are separate. This includes the 16V Scirocco which uses 256mm discs and different calipers and caliper carriers. Also a similar setup is found on the type 85 Audi.

On the Mk2 Golf (unsure which variants) the caliper carrier is integrated into the hub carrier, so the caliper (which is the same as the 256mm Scirocco caliper, and a bunch of others too, eg Audi Type 85).

Hub carrier is also known as the steering knuckle. Hub is the bit that goes inside it (the front wheel bearing is in between the two) and turns with the wheel…..

the carrier is seperate to the hub on a mk1, its the bolt spacing that is different to later mk2/3 cars with the 280s, hence why I run the adaptors that change mk1 hubs to take mk2/3 carriers and calipers..

paul_c said

wesleyh said

Paul the problem with the mk1 hubs is that the hub and carrier are all the one piece

on the scirocco and carrado etc
the carrier bolts onto the hub so you can upgrade from 256 to 280 by changing to a taller carrier for the caliper and not changing the hub

?????? Not totally accurate (AFAIK)

On the Mk1 and the Scirocco, the hub carrier and caliper carrier are separate. This includes the 16V Scirocco which uses 256mm discs and different calipers and caliper carriers. Also a similar setup is found on the type 85 Audi.

On the Mk2 Golf (unsure which variants) the caliper carrier is integrated into the hub carrier, so the caliper (which is the same as the 256mm Scirocco caliper, and a bunch of others too, eg Audi Type 85).

Hub carrier is also known as the steering knuckle. Hub is the bit that goes inside it (the front wheel bearing is in between the two) and turns with the wheel…..

Sorry paul
my mk1 is 83 and has what seems to me to be very similar to the mk2 break set up, is this right?

i dont have any experience of any other type mk1 sorry

wes

Very similar - how is it different? Also, what year is yours? I've heard vague things that the late cabby hub carrier is different and directly accepts/shares brake components with the Mk2.

1983 1.8 gti, to be honest the only differance i could see was the bolts that the caliper slide along when your breaking are differant,

when i was at them last year if memory serves me right the mk2 had a collar/bush that the bolt went into allowing for the caliper to slide forward and back on, when you brake and release brake and on the mk1 the bolt and collar/bush was all one part, i could not use the mk2 setup as the thread on the mk2 bolt would not suite my hub

both the mk1 and mk2 went inside a nylon sleeve

is this not normal?
i'll have another look at them to make sure i'm right in what i'm saying

To clear up any confusion:
All mk1s that I know of have a seperate carrier, never seen anything in ETKA to suggest otherwise either. Could be possible on runout models though, like paul I heard vague references that late cabs were much closer to MK2.  Maybe you have MK2 hubs wesley?

MK2 239 hubs have the caliper carriers cast into them, and so cannot be unbolted. MK2 256 and 280 setups as found on late 16v/G60 have sepperate carriers that can be unbolted, and have the same bolt spacing as later audis, mk3s seat models etc etc

MK1 hubs have a smaller bolt spacing for the carriers so MK2 and MK3, SEAT etc carriers can not be bolted on, specifically the link above for the 280s in the classified is wrong, they will not bolt on.

The only direct fit VAG group carriers for a MK1 are 256 items from scirocco 16v and early square audis.

however the G60/MK3/SEAT 280 carriers can be bolted on using adaptor brackets from the caddy forums, you then use std 280 4 stud discs & pads, which imo is a better solution to both the vaux setup and tsr conversions because you can use std vag bits.
the cheapness of vaux stuff cant be ignored, but remember you have to offset the cost of having to mix & match flexi hose kits.  The tsr setup requires custom discs, which adds more expense in the log run.  Also the TSR kit re-uses the old 239 caliper, so there isnt as much pad area and the caliper pistons are smaller than on the 256/280 calipers.

Rubjonny, I don't suppose you have a complete list of the cars the 256/280 calipers are on? I know there's later 16V Golf GTI MK2 (when you say later, what year range…), SEAT (which models and years?), Mk3 Golf (which ones?), Corrado (model/year?) etc thanks! Also of course, Scirocco 16V, Audi 90 and Coupe 1980-1987!

ok! <deep breath>

MK2 bolt spacing 256mm carrier: 357 615 125 B
96-03 Caddy
89-95 Corrado
89-98 Golf/Jetta/Vento
94-02 Cabrio
88-97 Passat/Santana
96-03 Polo classic/variant
93-96 Cordoba/Vario
93-99 Ibiza
96-03 Inca
92-99 Toledo

MK2 bolt spacing 280mm carrier: 357 615 125 C
89-95 Corrado
90-96 Golf/Jetta/Vento/Rallye
88-00 Passat/Santana
95-01 Audi A4/S4/Avant/quattro
97-02 Cordoba/Vario
97-02 Ibiza
92-99 Toledo

MK1 bolt spacing 256mm carrier: 853 615 125
84-92 Scirocco
85-88 Passat/Santana
83-87 Audi 80/90/Avant/quattro
81-88 Audi Coupe/quattro


edit: just to add, all 256 vented calipers are physically the same, e.g. you dont have to use scirocco 16v ones with the scirocco 16v carriers, MK2 or MK3 256 calipers will fit too.  Only difference is earlier calipers have the smaller bleed nipples.  I have a complete scirocco 16v setup with small nipples and used a late mk2 16v piston seal kit to rebuild them, fitted right on
Also 280 calipers are almost identical to 256, just they are a bit wider to cope with extra disc/pad thickness. you can use 256 calipers on 280 carriers, but you use part worn 256 pads and/or grind the slider pins down to get extra clearance.  Piston diameter is the same, as are the piston seal kits.

Cheers  - what's the difference between the Mk2 256 carrier and Mk2 280 carrier - does the carrier have different dimensions to accommodate the larger disc, therefore would use the same custom bracket on a Mk1? Or is the Mk2 256 carrier not useful (ie only the caliper itself, which is shared with the Mk2 280 setup) any use to Mk1 owners?

the only difference is as you say its a bit longer, i.e. it pushes the caliper further out so it will fit over the 280mm disc.  Apart from that pretty much the same, the 256 & 280 front hubs are identical and the calipers are very similar as above.

I'm not actually sure if the bracket from caddy forum would work with 256 carriers & discs, it may do but this assumes there is enough room for the bolts, calliper & adaptor bracket to fit on the hub.  Possibly the caliper will fowl part of the bracket as it will sit closer to it?

Jonny i'd say you could be right someone could have changed them to mk2 before i got it,

easy to tell, the tack rod arm bit is different.  on a MK1 its straight out the side, on a mk2 it angles down if you get me

Good stuff jonny i'll have a look
i'm mad to find out what one's are on it now  

if it is a mk1 item and has a 1 piece hub/carrier, pics