MOT Failed, Head Gasket Gone & Timing Out!!

Cheers Andy, the mark on my pulley is on the outer edge but yes this does line up, it didn't before the HG went though, was running really lumpy, someone had been messing with it.

Well it all got put back together last night, HG bolts tightened as instructed, dizzy rotor placed to no.1 HT lead, spark plugs tightened back down, all hoses connected, rad filled, engine filled

Does not want to fire up        

I really just don't know what is wrong, the engine is turning but no sign of firing
The only sign of it actually doing something is when it let off a few sharp pops out the back, is this a sign there is something off with the compression???

Don't despair MK1Bungle,

Firstly I have never heard or seen a notch on the outside edge away from the timing pointers. Also my understanding is that the V-belt pulley and the toothed-belt pulley on the crankshaft are in one piece so it can't just be on the wrong way round.

However it may just be correct.

Are you certain that there isn't a notch on the inner flange of the pulley ?

Make sure you are getting a spark at the plugs AND that you are getting petrol through the carburettor.

Then what we need to do is determine when the No: 1 piston is at TDC.

Remove the upper timing belt cover.

Take the spark plugs out.

Put a long (18 inch) rod/screwdriver into the No: 1 plug hole and rest it on the piston.

Now turn the engine over slowly using a 19mm socket on the Crankshaft pulley nut.

Watch/feel with the rod as the piston goes up and down and you will be able to get it close to TDC (i.e. when the rod is pushed furthest out of the plug hole and before it starts to drop).

Then look at the timing dimple on the Camshaft spocket, if it lines up with the TDC blade fine, if not is it 180 degrees out ? if it is not either of these then the timing notch on the Cranshaft pulley is out.

If it is out then;

Turn the engine until the dimple on the Camshaft sprocket is lined up with the blade.

Check that the Distributor Rotor Arm is pointing to the No: 1 mark (about 8 o'clock).

Loosen the water pump slightly (watch out for coolant leaking) and remove the toothed timing belt from the Camshaft.

Turn the Crankshft until No: 1 piston is at TDC using the rod/screwdriver as before.

Where is the notch on the pulley now ?

Mark the inner flange of the pulley next to the straight edge of the TDC pointer (right hand one) so you know where TDC on the Crankshaft is !

Replace the toothed belt on the Camshaft and tension with the water pump - check that both the Camshaft and Crankshaft marks are lined up.

Camshaft timing is now correct (wherever the notch is).

The only way to test the compression is to do a test with a compression tester - but I would try and get it started first.

Chin up  

Andy

Thanks for your quick response Andy, it's much appreciated, our problem now is that we have to get this out by monday as the other halfs work has a new vehicle coming in and they need the space  :?

Right, the dizzy rotor, i looked over that and the cap carefully last night, the rotor is clean and is lining up with no.1 HT lead.

I've not received the correct haynes manual yet so i am unsure on how to loosen off the water pump, if it involves removing the water pump pulley we've tried that, the bolts do not want to budge  :roll:

I'll look for another mark on the bottom pulley but have only seen the one tipexd on the outer edge so far

I'm not sure if we are getting any spark at all from the plugs (new), but fuel is definately flowing, it spat a load out the exhaust when it popped! lol

MK1Bungle,

Do the timing checks soonest as there is a possibility of the valves hitting the pistons (more expense) if the timing is too far out   

Andy

Mk1Bungle said

I've not received the correct haynes manual yet so i am unsure on how to loosen off the water pump, if it involves removing the water pump pulley we've tried that, the bolts do not want to budge  :roll:

The water pump is loosened by 3 bolts into the cylinder block - you must have done this in order to get the timing belt off, in order to remove the Cylinder Head. They only need to be loosened enough to move the pump and de-tension the timing belt so you can slip it off the Camshaft sprocket.

But do the TDC check first, as if that's OK you won't need to remove the belt.

Andy  8)

MK1Bungle,

PM or Email me your number if you'd rather we spoke  

Andy

Mk1Bungle said

if it involves removing the water pump pulley we've tried that, the bolts do not want to budge  :roll:

You don't need to remove the water pump pulley.

Andy  8)

Any news MK1Bungle ?

Andy

Her are the links for Haynes manual:

http://icelord.net/vw/doc/1081-02a.pdf - Engine repair procedures - 1.05 and 1.3 litre pre August 1985.pdf

http://icelord.net/vw/doc/1081-02b.pdf - Engine repair procedures - 1.05 and 1.3 litre post August 1985.pdf

Sorry i don't have the net at weekends, work only lol

Well i checked the ht leads order after replacing them, they are all correct. The other half took out the spark plugs and place a long screw driver down cylinder one and turned the crank pulley until it rose to the top. However, even though the timing marks line up where they should, the dizzy rotor does not line up with ht lead 1 anymore

The car still is not firing, but is poping flames out the rear lol

Ooo thanks Remus, that should be handy since my Haynes has not arrived yet, sodding postal strikes!  :roll:

Hello MK1Bungle,

I was getting worried about you  

It sounds like you have a timing issue ! what with the popping and the flames etc  

When you did the screwdiver test do both timing marks line up - i.e. Crankshaft pulley notch on the rightmost pointer AND the Camshaft dimple on the blade ?

If they do, then where is the Rotor arm pointing - look end on and tell me like a clock face i.e. 8 o'clock or 3 o'clock or wahtever. It should be pointing at one of the Distributor cap terminals going to the spark plugs (this should be one of the following; 8 o'clock - 11 o'clock - 2 o'clock - 5 o'clock).

Wherever it's pointing that should be No: 1 plug lead and the rest go in order as before 1 - 3 - 4 - 2.

If this is all OK then the Camshaft timing is correct and we need to set the
Ignition timing with the Distributor.

Let me know.

Andy

Ok matey, will  be going back to it tonight, and a mate who works at Lexus is coming over to see whats what, will let you know tomorrow what happens, cheers for the help  

OK good.

The key thing is that the dimple on the Camshaft sprocket is lined up with the blade and the piston for No:1 is at TDC (regardless of where the notch on the Crankshaft pulley is).

Once these two are in synch (and the timing belt is on and tensioned) then basically the Distributor/Rotor arm position takes care of itself - that is then the position for No:1 Spark Plug lead and then the others go 3 - 4 - 2 anticlockwise.

As for the Ignition timing, firstly you need to set the points gap, then when you have the Distributor on the engine position it so that the mounting bolts (3 of them) are roughly in the middle of the slots and tight enough to stop the Distributor turning. This should be good enough to get you running, then you can set the timing with a timing light or by loosening and turning the Distributor to get the smoothest/fastest idle speed and tightening it up.

Stick at it you're nearly there - I can sense it.

Andy

remus said

Her are the links for Haynes manual:

http://icelord.net/vw/doc/1081-02a.pdf - Engine repair procedures - 1.05 and 1.3 litre pre August 1985.pdf

http://icelord.net/vw/doc/1081-02b.pdf - Engine repair procedures - 1.05 and 1.3 litre post August 1985.pdf

And if you type in http://icelord.net/vw/doc or click the link there is a list of manual chapters (unfortunately in Russian) that cover Cooling system, Brakes etc. They cover Golfs 1.05, 1.3, 1.5, 1.6, 1.8 GTi etc all in one but there's useful stuff in there and the photographs are much clearer than my manuals    

Andy

Every manual is on english.

remus said

Every manual is on english.

Hello Remus,

We appreciate the link Thank You  8) .

What I meant was the Site/Chapter List was in Russian - the documents themselves are excellent - and all in English !

Andy

Well my good mate from Lexus came and checked the car over with me last night, timing was off by one tooth but he sorted that, checked the plugs, ht leads and order etc, checked the carb over and all seems spot on

However it is still refusing to start and is seriously getting my radgy!!    

We were jumping it off one of the work trucks as the battery was dead, used the choke to start off with but petrol was pooling around the carb, so stopped, took the carb off, let it all dry out, checked the plugs as it appeared it was flooding itself, plugs were almost dry  :dontknow:
Tryed it again, this time without choke, no petrol pooling but as soon as you move the throttle cable, it was popping flames out the rear.

My mate wonders if it is possible that the carb is dumping the fuel straight out the down pipe??

Hello MK1Bungle,

Firstly - where is your Crankshaft notch when No: 1 piston is at TDC please ?

Secondly what do you mean when you say the petrol is 'pooling' ?

Thanks

Andy

The crankshaft pulley mark is on the second mark on the two prongs, TDC

Petrol seems to be seeping out the bottom of the carb onto the heat sheild, but the gasket is fine and the bolts are tigh enough