MOT Failed, Head Gasket Gone & Timing Out!!

I desperately need help

We bought a 1983 1.3 driver a couple weeks back that we were aware was overheating and sought to solve the problem and have a really good & cheap  daily runner in place of my Leon.

We took it for MOT just over a week ago and it failed on the following:
CV boot
Bottom suspension boiljoints
Rear bearings
Rear brakes

So we bought all the bits for the above including new head gasket and bolts, thermostat, plugs, & sump plug washer.

We fitted the head gasket and bolts, tightened to 60nm, but the car is not firing at all. Judging by the timing mark on the bottom pulley, the mark was out by about an inch prior to the head going, it still ran if not a little lumpy.

My question is, as the car was overheating before the head gasket went, could there have been another problem to make it go?

Also, can someone provide me with a pic of where the timing marks should be on the pullies and head/block so i can get them lined ip properly please?

Lastly, i noticed the bottom pully at the back was wavering slightly on rotating but it does not look bent, could this be a sign of a knackered water pump?
Can someone please also provide me with a pic of where the thermostat is located? I am not familiar the 1.3's, sorry  ops:

 

Hello MK1Bungle,

Firstly if you don't already have one - get the correct Haynes manual (Ebay) all the info is there.

With regard to the timing marks:-

TDC - line up the notch on the crank pulley with the 'rightmost' pointer on the block (there is a double pointer on the block and if you look from over the offside/driver's side wing the left pointer is 5 deg BTDC and the 'rightmost' pointer is TDC).

Then for the Camshaft pointer you need to remove the upper cambelt cover (easy) and then under the big toothed cam sprocket there is a metal 'blade' this is the pointer for TDC, on the outer face of the cam sprocket there is a small round 'dimple' which needs to line up with the 'blade' - whilst the Crank pulley still lines up with its pointer on the block.

At this point both valves for No: 1 cylinder should be closed and the rotor arm should be pointing to No: 1 spark plug HT lead (there is normally a small mark on the edge of the distributor once you remove the cap and plastic cover) from memory this is at about 8 o'clock when viewed from over the nearside/passenger wing.

Also check your HT leads are in the correct firing order 1-3-4-2 anti-clockwise.

Ignition timing with a timing light is 5 deg BTDC at idle with the vacuum advance diconnected.

Thermostat is in the flange facing forwards under the distributor on the right hand end of the block. 2 bolts and top hose to be removed, as well as the thermostat make sure you use a new o-ring seal.

Any Help  :dontknow:

Andy

Thanks Andy, that sounds like a big help, we found two dimple's on the cam pulley, one either side, they are now lined up, but i'm not sure if the pistons are lined up as i think the bottom pulley had moved too. I can't find any marks on that one though.
Will look at getting a better haynes, as the light blue one we have is for golf's and jetta but does not specify which engines generally.

If the top hose on the rad is getting hot, this means the water pump should be okay shouldn't it?

This is the car in question anyway:


The cylinder head & cam pulley



Block, Pulley & Pistons



Is the thermostat behind this pipe below the Dizzy??


If so i think i need a new one of those too as it has been corroding, couldn't have been helping the overheating problem!

You're welcome MK1Bungle,

What's the problem with the crank/pistons ?

Do you have the timing pointers on the block ?

The pulley marking is a tiny notch on the pulley rim nearest the block - hard to spot if the rim is corroded/dirty so make sure it's clean.

Also remember the No:1 piston is at TDC twice in the four stroke cycle - once on compression (which we want) and once on exhaust. this is why the position of the rotor arm when the marks line up is an important indicator.

My Haynes is a light blue one - but specifically for 1.1 and 1.3 engines.

If the top hose is getting hot - just means the thermostat is open (or missing  ) however the pumps are so simple (just an impellor really) than the only thing that fails is the bearing. so if it spins and the notched pulley is not too wobbly I'd see how you go. If the bottom hose gets hot too then I'd say it's pumping !

If not it's cheap and relatively easy to change (if a bit fiddly).

Keep asking.

Andy

Yeah we discovered the thermostat was missing in our GTi the other week too lol
I've bought a new one for it anyway, even if it isn't missing or knackered

I'll check the bottom hose when it's running to see if that is getting warm  

With regards to the crank/pistons, was not sure if they are sitting right, do they look in the correct position?

Just so i know for sure, is number one piston to one next to the pulley, and 4 the opposite end?

What does TDC mean? lol sorry for sounding dumb  ops:

Would the whole water pump need to be replaced if knackered or can just the bearing be replaced? The bearing was gone on the GTi water pump but had to buy a whole one  :dontknow:

Sorry, another silly question, in the pic of the dizzy, to the side of that top hose that is coroding, there is a bolt hole but nothing in it, should there be something there???

Oh and would this be the right manual??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170127892691&rd=1&rd=1

Hello MK1Bungle,

Thanks for the pictures - I'm very familiar with them !

So much so that I think you have the wrong head gasket - is the one in the picture the new one or the old one and do you have a make/number ?

I have just been through this myself  

The head gasket looks like the one GSF supply (I don't have the number to hand) and it's the wrong one ! it's for Golf 1.05 and 1.3 from 1983 on I think.

The 4 holes for the water flow around No:1 cylinder are too small - they should be triangular shaped like the holes in the cylinder block. This is to allow plenty of flow into the head from the water pump which then filters down through the 12 smaller holes around the other 3 cylinders. If you think about the flow it makes pefect sense - and I think that's your overheating problem.

I bought my head gasket set from Partco/Unipart about ?17 all in - I can get you the number if you want.

The thermostat is indeed in the housing that you show, and mine was corroded too. In addition the metal pipe across the back of the engine was badly corroded as was the metal joining piece in the hose to the heater - worth checking them all.

Car looks good though  8)

Andy

Hello MK1Bngle,

The pistons are about right in the picture but need to be set exactly using the pulley notch.

TDC - Top Dead Centre.

BTDC - Before Top Dead Centre.

No:1 cylinder/piston is always nearest the crank pulley end.

Water pump comes in one piece - if you're worried just replace it as they're cheap (ish).

From memory there is a spare hole next to the thermostat but I'll need to check at home.

Andy

Cheers Andy, really appreciate your help here, lol glad u like the pics

Dammit, i just matched it up to the last gasket, and yes the new one in the pic was from GSF, i don't have the part number to hand tho! Can see there is only the bottom left hole is triangular.    Will be giving them a call now, but i take it they don't do the correct one?? The number for unipart would be great hun

Mk1Bungle said

Oh and would this be the right manual??

Yep that's what I'm using…

Andy

MK1Bungle - just ring your local Partco/Unipart factor - or I can get you the number tonight, pleae let me know.

Also worth trying Euro Car Parts (just Google it).

You're correct GSF don't list another gasket.

Andy

PS - anything else  

Just rang GSF, didn't like the guys attitude, said they only sell the one gasket and they've never had a problem with them, and that he gets told all day long of advice people are given on forums (sorry but who knows best but the owners that experience these problems!!), part number 11132, he said they are for the mk1 and 2 which i don't give two hoots about!  :roll:

Lol i'm sure i will think of other things Andy  

Will give my mate at Eurocarparts a ring and see if he can help me

Tar ever so

Rache  

Right then, ECP only do one as well, and it looks the same as the one i have, is this definately not correct as he says this is what Vag list also

MK1Bungle,

Yes I recognise the Part No: 11132 - I actually rang the gasket manufacturer with their Part No: from the packaging - and they confirmed it was the wrong one    

If you check the engine codes on the label you'll find yours is not listed - GG.

Andy

Ah right, they are listing it as GF, that makes sense now

Just realised GG is the 1.1 engine code - is your's different because it's a 1.3 ? - check the registration document/cylinder block.

Andy

Okay i'll check the V5 when i get home, GG comes up with this one which he also confirmed as 1.1: