Car not turning over

Hi Guys
I virtually completed a nut and bolt resto only to have to find a replacement gearbox due to faults with mine. Many on here have been helpful along the way inc 'rubjonny' who's knowledge seems to be superb; many thanks.

Ok, I have just fitted the replacement box and connected up all that I can for now. Whilst I was trying to source a replacement box I removed the dash binnacle completely as I need to find a replacement.

I have attempted to start the car this afternoon but all I get is a clicking. It is def not the battery as have tried one from my daily drive and its the same.

Now I have checked the main earth strap and that connects to the inner chassis leg and onto the top of the gearbox. With the multi-meter with ignition on I get 12v at the starter motor 'but' I get no reading to the spade connector on the starter.

Is this spade connector sent a signal from the dash??

If so is my non-turning over due to the dash binnacle not being in and the signal not being sent??

Any other ideas are much appreciated.

Many thanks 

Dash binnacle is a red-herring, its not needed to run the car.

Try hot starting it - ie get a piece of wire and connect it between the battery +ve terminal and the spade terminal on the starter motor, it should at least turn over then (sparks too, at the terminals).

PS It might be that you're disrupted the ignition switch connector, or that this switch it dodgy (they go bad and produce symptoms similar to how you describe).

paul_c said

PS It might be that you're disrupted the ignition switch connector, or that this switch it dodgy (they go bad and produce symptoms similar to how you describe).

Hi
Thanks for the reply.

So, what your suggesting is:

Get a jump lead and connect the battery positive terminal directly to the starter spade connector?

Then try and start the car?

If it turns over, what does this isolate the prob too?

Cheers 

TROOPER88 said

paul_c said

PS It might be that you're disrupted the ignition switch connector, or that this switch it dodgy (they go bad and produce symptoms similar to how you describe).

Hi
Thanks for the reply.

So, what your suggesting is:

Get a jump lead and connect the battery positive terminal directly to the starter spade connector?

Then try and start the car?

If it turns over, what does this isolate the prob too?

Cheers 

No, connect this wire and see if it does something more than click, ie the engine actually turns over. (It won't start unless you put power to the coil too. You'd need another piece of wire to do this though).

Have you checked the engine can actually turn over, by using a bar & socket on the crank nut and physically turning it? It might be the cambelt's been fitted wrong and its locked itself up etc. I don't know how much work you did on the engine and if you made logical checks along the way.

paul_c said

Have you checked the engine can actually turn over, by using a bar & socket on the crank nut and physically turning it? It might be the cambelt's been fitted wrong and its locked itself up etc. I don't know how much work you did on the engine and if you made logical checks along the way.

Hi
The engine was running well before I removed the box and associated wiring…
I therefore know it is not a belt issue.

I am sure that all the other electrics are connected up so in the morn will remove the power wire to the coil and connect the jump lead from the battery positive to the spade on the starter and report back.

Many thanks

Hi Guys
Well the plot thickens

Just been to the garage:

Removed starter motor and bench tested: All good so refitted

Removed the spade connector to the solenoid and ran a wire from battery positive terminal to spade. Engine turned over very, very slowly, very, very briefly before going back to just 'clicking'

Whilst trying to start it today I noticed smoke!! The smoke was seemed to be coming from above the gearbox. I located it to the section of wiring loom that contains (to name but a few) the water temp, oil temp, and various other switches (about 15 wires). Within this is a brown wire which I believe to be an earth, I cut along the plastic outer loom sleeve to expose all of the wires and the brown wire has been badly burnt….
So much so the brown insulation had stuck in places to other wires and the outer plastic casing.
I have removed the outer plastic up to the point where the loom reaches the brake master cylinder. Here the loom splits.

So it looks like a major earth fault?
Would this cause the non-turning over?
Any ideas where this burnt earth come from as no doubt I will have to run a whole new wire.

Many thanks

Yeah sounds like the main battery - body - gearbox earth is for whatever reason (probably paint or corrosion) not making a good contact, but the engine/starter motor had another earth path via a much thinner cable, which has duly melted.

To answer the listed questions:
Yes
Yes
Vaguely aware of brown cables in the engine bay but don't know their exact routing.

TROOPER88 said

Now I have checked the main earth strap and that connects to the inner chassis leg and onto the top of the gearbox.

How did you check this?

paul_c said

TROOPER88 said

Now I have checked the main earth strap and that connects to the inner chassis leg and onto the top of the gearbox.

How did you check this?

Hi
I think the earth strap is the problem.

Thinking about it the gearbox has been painted before fitting so I could be preventing a good earth being achieved.

I will removed the lead, sand the area underneath and reattach this morn and try it.

If it does turn over, the next job is going to be to find the source of the brown earth that has melted and replace….

I will of course update later

Many thanks

Hi
Well I just removed the main earth strap and sanded the connecting areas under the air box and on the gearbox mount. I also used insulation tape on the earth along its length as it had no covering (?).

Unfortunately this has made no difference.

I tried to start it and the same small earth wire was burning. I cut into the loom and removed the entire length of this earth wire. It earths at the claw by the fuse box and was burnt virtually along its full length.

Where does the engine block itself earth, that's if it does?

I think I will try and source a replacement speedo binnacle and get the car back together the best I can before having it recovered to a local vw specialist to carry complete the final jobs.

It is very strange though as it was running fine before the engine and gearbox were recently removed.

Cheers

I am troubled that you've tried unsuccessfully to clean up the earth strap, since it is not a complicated process. Might I suggest you use a small grinder (like, a tiny wheel on a Dremel) to properly clean the areas to bright steel, I suspect what you've done is gingerly sanded the area and gone through the top coat of (coloured?) paint to reveal an undercoat.

The earth strap is where the engine block itself, earths……

I know it sounds daft but you've not put sealant in between the engine and box did you? Even if you did, the bolts and the sleeves should provide an earth path.

PS earths don't need covering insulation….think about it….. everything else does though.

paul_c said

I am troubled that you've tried unsuccessfully to clean up the earth strap, since it is not a complicated process. Might I suggest you use a small grinder (like, a tiny wheel on a Dremel) to properly clean the areas to bright steel, I suspect what you've done is gingerly sanded the area and gone through the top coat of (coloured?) paint to reveal an undercoat.

The earth strap is where the engine block itself, earths……

I know it sounds daft but you've not put sealant in between the engine and box did you? Even if you did, the bolts and the sleeves should provide an earth path.

Hi Paul
I used 180 grit paper on the earth locating area.

I am on my way to work soon so will not get chance till tomorrow morning to have another look.

I will of course try what you suggest and with a grinding disc I will take the area back to bare metal.

I will of course update in due course.

Thanks

Have you seen this thread, may be the same problem you have.

http://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=technical%2Felectrics_2%2Fbrown-wire-fried-when

 

mark1gls said

Have you seen this thread, may be the same problem you have.

http://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=technical%2Felectrics_2%2Fbrown-wire-fried-when

 

Thanks for this…..

Ok, had a quick look this morn with no joy.
I removed the main earth strap and took the chassis leg securing location and gearbox location back to bare metal. The problem remains.

Yesterday I stripped out the burnt earth wire and will reinstate this in due course.
I am sure the issue is earth linked. Yesterday morning when the burnt earth wire was still in place, the only way I would get an life out of the starter (the clicking) was when I grounded this burnt wire to the rocker cover.

As it stands power is getting to the dash (wipers etc work) but there is nothing from the solenoid or the starter.

There are pretty much no electrical connections made (unplugged) in the bay apart from:

Battery positive (supplying starter and alternator)
Batter negative (with correct earth)
I think the fan, horn, dizzy are connected.

It is as though something simple yet major in terms of car turning over is amiss……..

Is the starter motor fused?

Cheers

Starter is not fused, neither are a number of wires to the fusebox, ignition switch and light switch so take care when in these areas.

Whereabouts are you located?

paul_c said

Starter is not fused, neither are a number of wires to the fusebox, ignition switch and light switch so take care when in these areas.

Whereabouts are you located?

Hi Paul
Sunbury on Thames, Middlesex

Cheers Paul

OK I'm about 200 miles away, maybe someone closer can take a look and help out.