DX engine wont start - updated with new findings

to test the k jet in situ theres a cheat for the relay , taking it out and putting in a spool of wire , this runs the pump steady but hurts nothing as theres the pressure relief valve , with the pump running in this manner then you can have the injectors out and the flap accessable , making it easy to test and visually inspect , or , K Jetronic Injector testing on car with subtitles - YouTube , loads on k jet there in youtube

easier cheat is swap a 17/18 relay to the pump socket, the pump will then switch on with the ignition. unplug the coil black wires to disable it, this prevents any chance of a spark from the injectors

New starter motor purchased this morning.  Put it on and still the same.
Just taken plugs out and disconnected the coil to dizzy lead.  It turned over and the coil was sparking at the end where the HT lead to dizzy goes.  AND the fuel pump came back in to action

I don't like to think that things have beaten me but this has 

from your description i can only think either the engine has really high compression for some reason, or we go back to the battery or cabling not being up to the job. or you have been very unlucky with starter motors!

I think you may be on to something there rubjohny re compression.
Spark plugs out and ht leads disconnected it turns over, spark from coil and fuel pump working
Spark plugs in and ht leads still disconnected, doesnt turn and no fuel pump
With you mentioning compression ive just remembered that ive put headgasket on for standard engine. This one is bored to 1910cc

Can't believe an overbore would cause this.
Does it turn over without the dizzy to coil lead on?
Just a wild shot here but is it trying to kick back due to incorrect ignition timing? Although normally it would kick back and then go forward again.
You may need to slighty retard the ignition with the higher compression.

a std hg might cause pistons to clash if they'rte oversize possibly, but then if it was that then im sure the problem would be there with plugs out. worth getting a compression test done just for piece of mind. if the wrong pistons were fitted that could have pushed the compression too high?

all seems a bit far fetched to me mind

Did a test yesterday.
Removed one spark plug and tried turning over. (did this for all 4) - partial turn
Then removed two spark plugs at a time (all combinations) - partial turn
Then removed three spark plugs at a time (all combinations) - partial turn
All removed - turns

This just backs up what my recent thoughts were re compression.

Had a look at the itemised receipt for when work was last done to the engine and its shows a head gasket part number.  Typed this in and looked at the compatability chart which says its not for my variant.

Spoke to the engineering company that did the work who weren't massively helpful (there again it was ten years ago that they saw the car).  What they did say is that they believe that I need a thicker head gasket to lower compression as this is causing the issue I'm having.  This being backed up by the fact that it had a skim with the work and with a skim a thicker head gasket should be used.

as long as the skim was within vw specifications you should be ok with standard thickness gasket, but i am wondering about the 1.8 gasket on a 1.9 if possibly the clerarnace isnt quite enough. though im sure it would make bad nosies if thatr was the case! a 2.0 head gasket should be fine and also will reduce compression very slightly.

but before you remove the head i would double, double check the timing is ok. get the bottom end to TDC then take the cam cover of to visually check if the cams are correct, you should see lobes on #1 pointing up and away from each other like this -> |\ /|

if not check that the cam sprocket is the right way round, if you fit it backwards non of the marks line up. alsdo check the woodruff key is ok and not missing/sheared. shine a torch down bsparky hole on #1 too, to ensure pistonm 1 is at the top when your crank marks are aligned

rubjonny said

but before you remove the head i would double, double check the timing is ok. get the bottom end to TDC then take the cam cover of to visually check if the cams are correct, you should see lobes on #1 pointing up and away from each other like this -> |\ /|

if not check that the cam sprocket is the right way round, if you fit it backwards non of the marks line up. alsdo check the woodruff key is ok and not missing/sheared. shine a torch down bsparky hole on #1 too, to ensure pistonm 1 is at the top when your crank marks are aligned

I have been checking the marks constantly (thanks to the guide on here) to check that nothing has slipped and everything is still fine.  Also I know the cam sprocket and woodruff key are fine as I changed back to the original cam to ensure that the fast road one wasn't causing the issue.

Might use the mark BTDC just to give it a try

Do you have a compression tester or can you get one?

Normally you would put a thicker gasket to lower compression to stop detonation - not just to get it to turn over!

Imagine diesel has around 18:1 compression and they turn over.

Even if you get it turning over you may still have issues imo. - if it is indeed compression related.

What pistons are fitted? Do you have a picture of them before the head went on?

If the gasket diameter was smaller than the bore it would only be an issue if the piston was proud of the block deck. You would probably have an issue with the fire ring on the gasket as well. And as rubjonny says the problem would be there all the time.

As for cam timing if that was out by loads and it was the valves hitting the pistons then again it would be there all  the time and compression would be down. if the cam timing is out only slightly then that would reduce compression anyway. also didn't you take out a higher lift cam because of this problem. A high lift cam would yield lower compressions at cranking speeds due to valve overlaps etc. so in in effect you may have raised the compression (at cranking) even higher with a standard cam.

this is odd!!Saying all this it still could be something simples!! You haven't got extra extra long reach sparkplugs fitted have you?!!if it is comprssion related, either you have a head which has too much skimmed off it or wrong pistons or more likely both.

I've finally found somebody who has one that I can borrow and will be getting that in a couple of hours.

As for the pistons, I don't have a picture and the detail on the receipt is vague.  The rebore took the engine to 1910cc and the receipt details oversized pistons part number ?3928620 (question mark meaning that the first number is where the page has torn off cf_emoticons__BangHead

The cam timing and all other timing is fine with all marks where they should be.  Because of what happened I took the head back off to check if the valves were bent, they aren't and it turns out that they hadn't been hitting the pistons because there are no marks at all.  The camshaft on the car at the moment is as VW intended but if I rear correctly I'd be better off putting the high lift back on.

Spark plugs - not thought about that but they are what was on the car when I got it and it was running then.  I have even tried only partially putting these in and it still prevents the engine from turning.

I haven't changed anything internally on the engine and it all worked when I got it .  As I said earlier the head gasket that the engine company put on it apparently doesn't match my engine so maybe that is the issue.

I'll report back with compression results

Turns out a new earth lead i bought had broken. That solves the engine turning over issue.

Now for the fuel issue. Took lines off metering head whilst pump running and nothing coming out. Took pipe off to fuel filter, bridged fuel pump, nothing. Fuel pump is beavering away so i can only assume that there is now a blockage!

Oh on a side note the freshly reconed gearbox is leaking too

PANTS

Instead of assuming the brand new earth's were OK, I should have listened to you guys and checked them.  The gearbox part was loose.  Did that up and it cranks.

But its a case of back to the fuel issue.  I've cleaned the sensor plate and the pin that goes to in to the metering head just to be sure but they move nicely.  Fuel pump is working when turning over but no fuel.  Took filter off (new) and that had fuel in it but it didn't pour out when I bridged fuel pump to work.  So i took the filter out completely and switched fuel pump on.  Plenty of noise but nothing coming out.

So, that makes me think that originally the pump sent fuel to front through the filter to metering head.  Then somewhere it got blocked.  That way it would explain fuel from 5th injector, at metering head side of fuel filter and to the fuel filter.

Oh and to hurt me further, the gearbox which I had recon'd is now leaking from the driveshaft flangecf_emoticons__BangHead:cf_emoticons__BangHead:cf_em
oticons__BangHead:cf_emoticons__BangHead:

She lives. Don't know why but she does

yay! glad you got to the bottom of it

Only thing I'm wondering now is that I've put the fast road cam back in because I thought I may as well whilst things are still stripped.  Timed it again.  Fired first time   .

I have noticed however that when the camshaft lobes are in the closed position, that tappets are not near the lobes.  Measured the distance from the centre of the shaft to the extremity of the closed end of the lobe on the original cam and the fast road cam.  They are the same.

Is this normal?