2e2 carb help please

Hi there

I have fitted a refurb 2e2 carb to my 1.8 clipper.  At the same time I took the manifold off and cleared the blocked o ring.  So I have great water flow to the auot choke, it gets hot very quickly.  I have power to the 3/4 unit controls (hear a clikck when I turn ignition on), the manifold preheater works, and the wax stat gets hot quickly too.  the warm air feed and hot air deflector is present, and the warm air flap works well. I have checked the fuel pump and works well.  And in refitted the rule reservoir that the previous owner had for some reason removed.  

In fact the car runs really well, other than the tickover speed when he car is fully warm is only 500 rpm, and sometimes it cuts out as I slow down and stop at a junction.  

Any ideas please of things to check?

Thanks
Andy

if everythign else checks out fine as per my 2e2 faq, you can adjust the idle speed using the 13mm bolt on the back of the 3/4 point unit. EZ_pete has some excellent info on this here (post #20)
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=248363

be sure to read it all thru very carefully as its quite a complex little beastie! the last thing you want to do is fiddle with any adjustment settings without making sure everything is working 110%

Thanks for the advice.

I have realised that there is a issue with the 3 point unit.  I think there is no power to it, as it is constantly in. When the engine is off it is fully extended, and as soon as the engine comes on it retracts completely and stays retracted.  So when the car is at operating temperature and the revs are around the 500-600 mark, the 3 point unit is still completely retracted!

It think this is also why the revs at start up are keeping at 2,000 for a long time, they should drop to 1,500 after a 10 seconds or so but it is taking a lot longer.

So it sounds like I need to get power to the 3 point unit, and then it will fix my problems?

Andy

yeah that isnt right, chek you get 12v to both the valves on the back of the carb. if not it might be you have blown a fuse, start with fuses 17 and 18

Hi - thanks so much for your help.  The fuse to the TT valve (number 18) had gone!  I changed in and now it works fine, and ticks overs at warm perfectly at 900 revs.  When the revs go above 1,200 it pulls in, and then once the revs drop it pops out.  The revs fall for split second to 700, and then the 3 point pops out and pushes the throttle up slightly to 900.
Well please, thanks for your help.
Andy

cooilio

Thanks for your help! I have a couple of other questions if you wouldn't mind?

1.  The 3 point unit pulls in above 1200 revs, and then comes back out as the revs increase?  Is this right?  Why does it do that?

2. I have also got a fuel supply issue, which is showing up as the carb is pretty much sorted!  I can be driving along fine for 10 mins, and then suddenly loose power, the car jumps and stalls.  I know there is crap in the fuel tank.  The previous owner had the filler neck replaced, and then removed the fuel reservoir.  I have put the reservoir back and put 3 fuel filters in line.  I checked the fuel pump and it was spurting fuel ok.  However sometimes the fuel filters are full of fuel and fuel is clearly being pumped back to the fuel tanks.  But sometimes, there is very little fuel in the filters and very little being pumped back to the tank.  I wondered whether my issue was poor fuel flow, and whether that was a dodgy fuel pump and/or crap in the fuel

Any advice you could give me would be much appreciated!

Thanks
Andy

yep that is correct, not entirely sure why
its known as the 'decelleration' position so something to do with over-run I expect

was the tank swapped out when the filler neck was replaced? if not then take out the level sender and have a good look inside. the fuel lines might need blowing out too once all the crud is cleaned out of your tank. the level sender may have a little mesh filter on the end too so make sure that is clear and no rusticles inside the level sender pipes.

if all that checks out i'd be looking at the pump next

Thanks! Every time I think I've understood this carb, it out foxes me again.

Hope you don't mind answering a couple of questions/correcting my understanding

1. The car will fire to 2000 from cold and then the 3 point unit works to bring the revs down to 1,500? is this right? How does the 3 point unit do this mechanically, I can see the piston moving out. It can't work out how that is adjusting the revs, or does it do it by default, ie it is out to create the 2000 revs and then when it comes in it is at 1,500 governed by the wax stat. Then the wax stat takes over and manages the revs down until below 1,200 then 3 point comes out so to control hot idle?

2.  This morning I started the car from cold (the choke flap was fully closed, and the 3 point seemed to be doing what it should). Although the car started first time, the revs didn't fire nicely to 2000 and then down to 1500. They just fired to 1,200 and hung around there.  I stopped the car and restarted, same thing happened.  I unplugged the ttv and over run, plugged back in, and when I started again it fired up as it should to 2000 and revs dropped straight to 1500. Any ideas?

Thanks
Andy

the 3/4 point unit will hold revs roughly to 1.5/2k for a short time, the time this takes depends on the temperature. this is controlled by the thermo time switch on the back of the carb, it holds the 3/4 fully extended till a certain temp is reached then it allows the 3/4 to retract to the running position.

the revs should drop right to 900ish once the 3/4 is fully retracted, if they're higher than that then something isnt quite adjusted right, perhaps the linkages that the waxstat operates on need a tweak, the waxstat itself isnt quite extending properly or the idle adjustment on the 3/4.

maybe check your plugs and TTV and over-run valves for damage/corrosion to the terminals, and peel back the rubber boots to make sure the wires are ok underneath. check the brown wires on both have good continuity to ground.

have a read of this:
haynes2e2manual.pdf - Google Drive

more advanced stuff on the 2e2 from the haynes carb manual. if only they put that kind of detail into the mk2 haynes!

Brilliant, thanks.  I think the 3 point is not holding long, maybe a faulty connection to TTV (the valve is new) so maybe also explaining why the fuse went in the first place!
Andy

it should literally only be out for a few seconds, hardly any time at all when warm out. maybe ask the guy who did your 2e2 if there is any kind of adjustment you have to do once you fit it

Yep i think it is doing what it should.  Of course it's quite mild so the engine warms up dead quick and take ages to cool down!  I think the lack of fire this morning from cold maybe related to the fuel problem I've got.  Am fairly sure carb is now doing what it should, so will concentrate on fuel issues!  Thanks for your help!
Andy

Can i pick you brains on how you removed the intake manifold when you changed the o ring ?

I am doing the same on a 1.6 auto but cant seem to get the allen key to line up with the bolt as there's no room to manuver.. Did you need to use a combo of tools rather than just one key?

hi - yep this is not easy.  The way I did it is

1.  get a decent light to hang off the bonnet - you need more light than daylight

2. remove the warm air exchanger from the exhaust manifold.  There is a bracket attached to the exhaust maifold which supports the inlet manifold.  Try and remove this as it gives you much better access.  Mine was rusted so I just ended up bending the bracket out of the way

3.  get a small mirror (I used my girlfriends old makeup and snapped the mirror off the hinge…only prob was it wanst and old one…oh well!).  This will mean you can then see the screw head you need to get to…

4.  spray the screw (just spray the general area) with penetrating oil preferable (if not WD40 is half as good).  Leave for a few hours, spray again and leave for a few more hours.  This will a) make it easier to turn the screw and 2) clean off some of the crud and make it easier to see

5.  I used a  really long L-shaped allen key where on the long end the allen key is rounded off.  This makes it easier to get into the head of the screw and then turn it (because it is rounded, you dont need to be 100% square on, which is almost impossible).  I also tried using a socket set with extensions and a bendy bit, the issue was it was hard to get in and then get purchase to unscrew it

Ideally do all the above and ask someone to hold the mirror for you so you have 2 hands for the allen key.  

Hope that helps.   Good luck, it is worth the effort - when you finally get it off you will celebrate!

andy

a good set of allen bits and extensions makes this easier, i had to cobble something together

Thanks for the replies chaps.

I finally got around to trying again after buying some rounded end Allen keys. My cobbling together was an adjustable spanner on the short end of the key fr more torque - wish they wouldn't twist so much, feels like they're going to snap before the bolt loosens up! Took a long while but after a few hours I succeeded.. Yes a few hours!

My problems were rounding off, rusty nuts on the heat thing and the mounting bracket and ages just to locate one of the bolts in the middle. A mirror would have been easier with a strong light too but it was just me on my own.

Worst though was an already rounded mounting bolt that no Allen key would take to, just made it worse and damaging tools. My mini mole grips did nothing either, nor twisting the manifold. Finally I managed to hammer a sharp edged Allen key into the bolt to cut a deeper hex hole and got it to turn.. Wouldn't be surprised if the rounding was the fault of the last garage it went to… One reason I've started to do things myself.

So, hopefully clearing the gunked up cooling channel aNd replacing the o-ring as I'll be doing next will get it running well again.

By the way, my manifold rattles…. Sounds like something between the back of the heater and thin steel, vented plate on it's back.

Err… Should it do that? Maybe I'll have to bother to buy an oring and gasket for that and check it out before I replace it.

Another little question if anyone reads this, one inlet channel on the manifold is more carbonated than the others, this is the right most cylinder and that channel has the connection to the brake servo. Is this extra carbonation due to this connection or possibly a timing issue/valve clearance type thing?

no it shouldnt rattle, maybe one of the c clamps is loose or its just the metal heat collector thingy is loose or bent.

carbonated? do you mean oily? carbon will only build up in the combustion champer and exhaust, in the inlet it should just see petrol, air and some oil from the breather system. id not be worried about the oil build up thats normal. you could fit a catch tank system but its not worth the effort really

Possibly the electrical connection is loose but inside the heater bit? Might have to check it out, check that it gives the right resitance too.. Annoying thing is I have to keep going back and forth to get tools as this is my girlfriend's car (to be honest to myself, I guess I'm treating it as a learning curve, having previously been afraid to tinker with cars incase they cost too much to get working again!).

I'd say it is carbon deposit, a kind of powered texture heat engrained on to the inside of the inlet - could there be a little bit of exhaust escaping through an inlet valve? Or maybe dirty air coming via the brake servo if there was a leak in the connection and heat of the engine just caking it on? Of course, could be from a past problem that was sorted a long while ago.