2.0 ABF bottom end and 16V KR head rebuild Pic heavy

Howdy,

I've just honed my cylinder block out as i have new piston rings to fit in my 1.8 KR.

I have a sneaky suspicion that I've messed up and gone a bit mad with the honing process. I'm worried I've bored the cylinders out too much.

Any way, I have always fancied the idea of slapping a 2.0 9A bottom end in my car and use all of the 1.8 16v bits. Now would be the time to do it as I have most of the engine stripped out.

The question I have is… Would the sump, crankshaft, con rods and oil pump from my 1.8 16v KR
still fit a 2.0 9a block?

I hope it will as I've just had the crank polished and new bearings fitted
:-(

Sump - yes
Oil pump - yes (match the oil pick up pipe to the sump you use)
Crankshaft - no
Con rods - unsure, doubt it though.

The 9A is a 2 litre and gains the extra 200cc with a bore and stroke of the 1800cc engine, so the crank is different.

sump - same as kr
oil pump - no its different
crankshaft - different
con rods - are the same

9a uses either a kr or abf head depending on the age of it so that'll be fine too.

the 9a pump is the same as the ABF one, its higher capacity than the KR (2.0 pump has bigger gears) so i wouldn't risk the kr pump in a 9a. also pickup is different but that can be swapped. the main problem though apart from the i think is the drive stem has a notch cut into it which iirc is required due to the 2.0 crank for more clearance?  loads of info here anyway:
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=197527

Are there any more numbers / letters to the 1.8 16v KR engine code? I've rang an engine place and they are sure there should be more?

should be kr, then 6digits. eg KR 123456

I've just been speaking with the engine specialists that my company use to have our cylinders rebored or parts supplied and they can rebore my cylinders and provide new oversized  pistons, rings, pins and clips for a decent price. I was speaking to them about the modifications I'm doing to my KR engine and he suggested having the engine balanced which they also do!

I am interested in having this done while the engine is stripped and having a recon. Has anyone here had their engine balances? If so, did you notice any gains or what gains would this have?

Thanks for your time!

Well if a wheel is balanced and provides a comfortable more efficient drive then surely a balanced crank, flywheel, rods and pistons is gonna help the engine turn more efficiently than none balanced internals. I'd have thought you can put the engine under more stress without worrying about it actually being under any more stress since the engine is spinning without any vibrations…. (in theory!?!?)

If I get the compression ratios, fuel injector delivery and the ports matched equally you'd think this would help BHP gains.

I've already started gas flowing the head, flowing the throttle body, I've got some 288 Newman cam shafts and vernier pulley, new hydraulic tappets, all the valves have been reground, new valve stem seals,  full ss exhaust and a drilled air box. With all the balancing, rebore amd new over sized pistons and rings, nee bearimgs WUR mod and the fuelling set up on the rollers I would imagine 170bhp is achievable? Or am I being a little optimistic?

it will only help, but vw engines are well balanced already from new so dont expect massive gains. you'll see more noticeable improvements lightening the engine internals, and you'll want them balanced as part of the package anyway would recommend you get your flywheel lightened then have that balanced to the crank as a complete unit if you're going to all that trouble.

I got 166bhp out of a completely standard ABF, with a chip. so you have to ask youerself, is it really worth dropping all that cash into reboring etc when you could just buy a complete abf lump and you may get close to what you want without any effort!

though with everything you are planning you would probably get a bit more power than that, but remember not every rolling road is the same, all comes down to how well it is calibrated and the skill of the operator. mine was tested on streamline's rollers and operated by the legend that is toyotec so im confident the figures were accurate.

on the other hand my old 2.0 8v with no mods made 140bhp on storms rollers, that i was highly sceptical of

Thinking about what you've said your probably right!

I've managed to source a full 2.0 16V ABF engine, loom, ECU, all the anxilliarys apart from the gearbox an airbox which I pressume means the fuel system?

Just a few questions I have that you may be able to help me with. I've been reading up on this but don't seem to get much info from the websites I'm on.

*What is the difference in the 1.8 16v and 2.0 16v looms? Can I still use my 1.8 loom for the 2.0.

*I am going to use the KR head as it has been gas flowed and has the Newman cams, new tappets and has been reconned. Would I be better using the ABF inlet manifold or KR inlet?

* what does the ABF ECU control as you mentioned the ECU chip, is it just to retard/advance ignition timing? Is this not possible on the KR?

* will I need to use the transponders and transponder key?

* as it doesn't come with the ABF air box will I be able to use the 1.8 16v airbox and metering head or is there a difference that may result in power loss?

*Basically my plan was to use the ABF engine and ECU etc but fit the KR head? Or am I missing something. Ie is te dizzy on the ABF different to KR so maybe I can't use the ECU to superchip it?

I'm in Somerset at the moment visiting family so I'm calling in at TSR Performance this weekend to see when they can fit the car in for a tune up and warm up reg mod on their rollers.
Thanks alot

I've just answered alot of my own questions by reading this:
http://www.clubgti.com/FORUM/archive/index.php?t-95978.html

I wasnt aware that the ABF had electronic fuel injection as a friend of mine has a corrado 2.0 16v with digifant, would that have been a 9A?

Seems all I will need is the block, pistons, rods, crank and fuel pump from the ABF and connect everything from my KR to it and that about it?

Seems I got a little confused. Sorry to waste your time.

1. very different! abf is full EFI whereas kr is mechanical
2. have to use the inlet to match the injection system
3. controls everything kr ecu you cant do anything to, but you can use the old k-star kits to make the timing adjustible, and the kstar+fuel allows you to map the fueling as well
4. only if its a post-96 ecu. you can swap ecus between looms, but the immobiliser isnt hard to wire in either
5. kr totally different, and mk2/3 airboxes are too wide to fit a mk1. most just use an induction kit
6. this will work, the heads themselves are virtually identical anyway you just swap anythign thats different

7. 9a has k-jet motronic, which is a slightly more ecu controlled version of k-jet. it still has the mechanical air flap and injectors, but the fuel cold start and warm up is all ecu controlled as well as the ignition. basically on a kr the warmup is controlled by the WUR on the head, the 9a doesnt have a wur and instead its job is taken over by an electronic valve controlled by the ecu

8. you can use all mk1 fuel system even if you go for the abf managment, it has an fpr which will dump any excess pressure back to the tank. abf pump wont fit anyway its totally different. if you want to run the abf on kr managemnt yeah you can just unbolt all the abf stuff and fit kr bits on in their place, the basic block is the same

Just been to TSR Performance down here in Somerset. The chap I spoke to was pretty helpful.
He seems to think I'd get over 180BHP with the mods I've bought and done.

Plan of action:
*ABF block, re-honed with new rings, and all new big, main and small end bearings,
*Crank and lightened fly wheel balanced,
*New ABF oil pump
*Baffled sump
*New water pump which I bought for my KR block,
*Ported + Polished KR Cly head,
*Valve stem seals replaced and valves reground,
*Newman 288 Cam shafts, vernier pulley, new chain and new hydraulic tappets,
*Upgraded Black diamond clutch kit,
*Reconditioned Gearbox,
*All new gaskets and seals,
*KR inlet manifold port matched
*Gas flowed KR Throttle Body,
*New belts and tensioners,
*WUR Mod, fuelling set up and timing set up,
*KR kjet fuel system
*and if I can get it done a lighter balanced crank and auxiliary pulley.

The guys at TSR say after they've had it on the rolling road it will make good reliable power.

I'm picking my ABF lump up Tuesday so I'll start a build thread if you like? 170-180bhp should be a good gain although it would have probs been cheaper to 1.8T 20V but it is less hassle this way! Haha

everyone loves build threads

Hi again. I've just spoken to GSF and they say there is a difference
between the KR and ABF head gaskets. Which gasket do
I need if I'm using the ABF block and KR Head
Thanks alot.

you need the abf gasket, as its for a 2.0 engine whereas the kr gasket is for a 1.8

It's possible to mix a KR head and 9A block, I have done it…    http://gti16.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18643gt16.com

also as guys are saying you should use the KR flywheel for it's half of the weight of the 9A one, and yes I'd recommed if you change flywheel 5kg as I did and mix engines get them balanced…

the main reason to use kr flywheel over 9a is 9a uses 02a gearbox, rather than for lightness

Thanks for that. I'll get one ordered.
I'm just going to use the lightened flywheel that I already have from
my previous mk1. I have had a quote to have the whole bottom
End (fly, crank, pistons and rods) balanced at £130+vat.

rubjonny said

the main reason to use kr flywheel over 9a is 9a uses 02a gearbox, rather than for lightness

both of them because with a flywheel 5kg lighter the car will go up with revs way quicker compared with the original flywheel.
Also KR head has bigger holes in both exhausts

ya but 02a flywheel cant be used with 020 gerarbox. if you want 02a gearbox you have no choice but to use an 02a flywheel. so as i say, its not a weight choice, its becasue you have to match it to the box!