fraud user?

dji8785 said

think  we should have a sticky page with fraudulent users details on it. i know its name and shame, but would flush out people who have no intention of shipping items and just conning people.

if you are a seller and have nothing to hide then there would be no issue.

just a thought.
dan

The problem is, there's always 2 sides to a story and it empowers the buyer so much that it might discourage sellers. For example, someone could have a grudge and use it to spoil their future selling on the forum. Or items do genuinely get lost in the post, or take a long time through the post. Or emails end up in a junk folder, or people forget their sign-in password on the forum. Hence the suggestion to have a published dispute resolution which sets out a framework which is fair for both sides. Compare with the situation eBay went through when they decided sellers can only leave positive feedback yet buyers can still leave negative. Many complaints! And also a few new avenues of fraud opened up, eg some buyers bullied sellers into unreasonable things such as the falsified refund fraud. (They buy an item, say there's a problem with it, say they'll return it but don't post it back, then claim it was lost in the post and if they're not refunded their money, they'll leave neg feedback).

ebay is ebay, and people will always be trying to con somewhere along the line.

there has to be something we can do though.

the classifieds section here is pretty good, and i've never had any problems, but there will alswys be problems for some people. as long as sellers give enough contact details,  (phone and email) then its down to the buyer to get in contact if there is a problem, and unless you are buying from a recognised seller (funk, crazyquiff, or a well known member) thenits luck of the drawer. but if you are paying for expensive bits, then use paypal with crdit card, or a post dated cheque etc.

A lot of sellers want PayPal sending as gift. And TBH, I personally wouldn't be bothered with cheques these days; I have to go and take them to a bank, which means driving into town, and parking, and putting it in the account, and waiting…

The feedback system for phpBB required both parties to submit feedback before it counted, IIRC. This board's on phpBB as well - perhaps that system could be implemented?

there's always 2 sides to a story

A standard cliché but sadly wrong. Are those who are fundamentally dishonest to be given any credence by the forum?

Tim Hale

TimHale said

there's always 2 sides to a story

A standard cliché but sadly wrong. Are those who are fundamentally dishonest to be given any credence by the forum?

Tim Hale

Yeah but why do you make the assumption the dishonest one, is the one selling stuff? There are honest sellers and dishonest buyers out there. The club needs to be more/less neutral and stay in the middle of disputes, not favour one side or the other disproportionately. Otherwise it will lead to honest sellers, not bothering to sell stuff.

RichardKC6 said

A lot of sellers want PayPal sending as gift.

There's no reason a buyer should use "pay as gift". It costs the same for a buyer to send the payment normally, as send as gift. The Paypal fees always come off the person receiving the money, I think?

Yeah but why do you make the assumption the dishonest one, is the one selling stuff?

Do you have a problem with reading, please indicate where I suggested that the seller was dishonest? Please do not make the mistake of adding your bias to my comment.

I suggest that an apology is in order on this occasion.

Tim

The Paypal fees always come off the person receiving the money, I think?

An incorrect assumption, please read PayPal guidelines.


Tim Hale

TimHale said

Yeah but why do you make the assumption the dishonest one, is the one selling stuff?

Do you have a problem with reading, please indicate where I suggested that the seller was dishonest? Please do not make the mistake of adding your bias to my comment.

I suggest that an apology is in order on this occasion.

Tim

I'm saying there's 2 sides to every story - ie the buyer and the seller's version of events. You indicated this was not true - suggesting there's only one side, I assume the buyer? Or are you saying the seller is always right and the buyer is always wrong?

Facts are facts, but if the club were to intervene to resolve disputes, it would need to gather evidence. I'm suggesting both sides are involved here. Once all the necessary facts are obtained, normally it becomes clear where the problem occurred, therefore the club would merely assist in resolving that particular area.

In another way, having a fair dispute resolution process should be as much a deterrent, as a tool in itself.

TimHale said

The Paypal fees always come off the person receiving the money, I think?

An incorrect assumption, please read PayPal guidelines.


Tim Hale

Without logging into Paypal and reading through all the guidelines, I'm fairly familiar with them. Without getting too involved in all the different ways it can possibly work, I was restricting consideration to the normal day-to-day use it would be put to if buying parts off a forum (ie non auction sale, for goods sent through the post). Tim can you point out the complexities in who pays the Paypal fees, if its not a simple case of seller pays (in the aforementioned scenario), just to save time really?

paul_c said

RichardKC6 said

A lot of sellers want PayPal sending as gift.

There's no reason a buyer should use "pay as gift". It costs the same for a buyer to send the payment normally, as send as gift. The Paypal fees always come off the person receiving the money, I think?

No, people asking buyer to send payment as gift honestly mostly do so because they want the buyer to pay the fees - an option presented when making the payment. Also some quasi-cash transactions are free of fees below a certain threshold.

Trust me, I baulk at it as a buyer and it cost me a decent hood cover from g60go. I pay the fees for the convenience; if I was running a store with credit card clearing facilities I'd be paying a flat monthly fee and upwards of 2.5% for a merchant facility; PayPal is a bargain.

Without logging into Paypal and reading through all the guidelines, I'm fairly familiar with them.

May I suggest that making any statement, without checking the facts is bound to end in recrimination.

Moreover you have made assumptions and claimed that I had made a statement which has absolutely no foundation.

A personal apology is clearly required.

I've had a look at the rules etc on Paypal and I'm happy with my previous posts - in the normal run of the mill sending money to pay for goods, the seller pays the fees. There's no option for the buyer to pay the fees.

I'll happily apologise if I've said something wrong - but I don't know what I've said to upset you! Please let me know what it was (use the quote if needs be) and I'll look at it.

There's no option for the buyer to pay the fees.

Try reading rather than looking.

can i have an apology too?

Bloody hell!

Is all this really required?

now now ladies handbags away im sure paul was trying to help in his own little way lol

with out reading the whole thread i totaly agree we should have some form off safety for our buyers on here, maybe apart for members only  being able to start the topic and veiwing is open to everyone and and replying etc but members only able to start the topic, could this be possible

How can such a thread which highlights an untrustworthy seller end up in people bickering over who has the greater knowledge of Paypals policies ?
It's very sad and meanwhile "the villain is getting away !"

Paying as a GIFT results in the sender, sending for example £10 and the receiver getting £10. Paypal receive nothing and neither party loses out. It's a very useful loophole in Paypals method of transferring money between two parties. How long it will be a facility is under question. Ebay bought Paypal some time ago now and it will bring them a good income from commission fees via their auction site but they are losing valuable revenue whilst allowing people to send GIFTS.

I hope I haven't upset anyone with my two penneth (gift)     

In my situation, I have chosen to provide negative feedback to the Ebay seller as this will alert not only forum users but all buyers.

Anyone who cares to waste a few minutes on a PM will be informed of the seller's identity but I prefer not to inconvenience the moderators or place the forum at risk of a legal action by publicly disclosing his identity.