It's getting annoying now!! Fuel starvation/running issue's

So like many other mk1 owners, I am also having these fueling/running issue's.  Has anyone found a solution yet???

I have a 1985 Golf Cabrio 1.6 auto carb version.  It just dies like it has been starved of fuel.

So far I have a new fuel pump, new fuel vapour seperator thing, new flange between carb and manifold, new fuel filter, and have also replaced the fuel line from the tank to the pump.  
I have also taken the sender out of the tank to make sure it wasn't blocked and can seem to blow through it quite easily.

The clear fuel filter is located between the tank and the pump in the engine bay, and from watching this it seems that the petrol just does not make it this far.  it will come through for sometime fine, and then the flow will just slow down to a trickle till the engine dies.

Any help would be appreciated, any cures found with the same symptoms would be great to hear about them.  I love the car but it's baffling me now!!

Sounds like rust in the tank. Try opening the port where the fuel sender sits and fish a magnet on the end of a bit of wire around in the tank for a while, you'll be amazed what comes out

Cero said

Sounds like rust in the tank. Try opening the port where the fuel sender sits and fish a magnet on the end of a bit of wire around in the tank for a while, you'll be amazed what comes out

Thanks will give that ago and will post if that helps or not too

Fuel cutoff solenoid?

Madferret said

Fuel cutoff solenoid?

Do i have one with it being carb?  And if so where would i find it?

Tried with the magnet around the tank over the weekend, it did get some rust out I must admit, not too much though.
Also have relocated the fuel filter from inside the engine bay, to next to the tank hoping that with the new fuel pipe it would stop the debris from going all the way along the pipe.

Took it out for a run and it does seem better, although once i got on the dual carriage way i tried sitting at just over 70 for the 2 mile stretch between roundabouts and it started spluttering slightly just before i had to back off, although didn't cut out which is a start.

May actually try putting the elec fuel pump from my Mini Turbo on it and just see if that will help, but that would mean replacing my fuel lines with larger pipes again, just to see if that would cure it.

Anyone else got any more thoughts and idea's…. the sun is coming out again and really want it reliable so i can use it without worry!

Cheers
Steve

If the newly relocated filter is full of crap you need to empty and clean the tank.

had the same, it was the inlet manifold gasket, get some wd40 or lynx deoderant, spray it on the gasket if the engine picks up(wd40) or hunts(lynx) its the gasket, changing mine this week so will let you know what its like, been told its a bitch of a job

I had a very similar frustrating experience with this issue.

Based on the work you say that you have already carried out, I do not think that the problem is associated with a rusty fuel tank. You would have a contaminated fuel filter in the engine bay.

My problems have been  associated with three components: Separator, Carb and Fuel Cut Off Solenoid.

You say that you have changed the vapour separator, I assume that this was a metal one.

Mine had corroded internally so much that it also contaminated the carb.  The existing fuel filter is installed before the separator, I fitted an additional filter between the new separator and the carb.

My carb was a 2e2 for 1.8 engine on a Mk 2, that I owned for 17 years from new. I took the top of the carb off and thoroughly cleaned the chamber inside, it was filthy. While you are at it, check the float height to ensure that it is either not set too low, starving fuel at speed, or too high, allowing overflowing at idle.

Later I had the dying and cutting out symptoms, I believe that this was the fuel solenoid. It was not the solenoid itself, but the electrical feed to it. It was intermittent; it was getting old with the heat and environment around it.

You should be able to hear the solenoid working when it is energised / de-energised. I believe mine was fitted to the front off the carb. Have the engine idle and wiggle the wires around it and see if the valve operates and maybe shuts the engine down. I rewired mine.

The only other issue I had was the wax stat had to be replaced, but I cannot remember the symptoms for this.

Afterthoughts:
Check that the fuel supply and return pipes have not been crossed over from the tank to the engine.

Check that the tank venting system is working, the vent filter is located in the drivers side upper rear arch. Make your it is fitted correctly in the right plane.

Check that the fuel cap is a vented one and is not blocked.

Hope this helps, best of luck

Will try the inlet manifold trick, and see what happens.

Have already checked the tank and ran a magnet around the inside collecting a small amount of rust but nothing major.

Malcolm said

You say that you have changed the vapour separator, I assume that this was a metal one.

Later I had the dying and cutting out symptoms, I believe that this was the fuel solenoid. It was not the solenoid itself, but the electrical feed to it. It was intermittent; it was getting old with the heat and environment around it.

You should be able to hear the solenoid working when it is energised / de-energised. I believe mine was fitted to the front off the carb. Have the engine idle and wiggle the wires around it and see if the valve operates and maybe shuts the engine down. I rewired mine.

Afterthoughts:
Check that the fuel supply and return pipes have not been crossed over from the tank to the engine.

Check that the tank venting system is working, the vent filter is located in the drivers side upper rear arch. Make your it is fitted correctly in the right plane.

Check that the fuel cap is a vented one and is not blocked.

Hope this helps, best of luck

Yes I the vapour seperator for the metal one, i did see the plastic ones, but they looked a bit rubbish!!
Fuel pipes are all ok as it does run for some time and will refill the fuel filter once the car dies.
When relocating the filter, I once again replaced it for a new one, just to make sure.

Haven't spotted the venting system so far, but will have a look later this week.  How would i find out if my cap is the vented style, I have already tried running it with the cap off, but still had the same outcome.

I have taken my Mini for a rolling road session today and thought i'd ask the guy there, he knew straight away what i was talking about and has given me 3 things to do, which is what he would normally do when vw cars come in with this problem…
      1, As soon as i mentioned i had a patent fuel pump from GSF parts, he told me to elongate the holes by 1mm each side where it bolts to the engine, so it actually sits further down the block and will pump better
      2, Block the fuel return pipe off as this really isn't needed, apparently it was put on for the American market, and was never really needed.
      3, Remove the solenoid completely, by doing something, but i cant remember what lol.

Will do the first 2 later this week when i'm off work, and if i need to do the 3rd will give him a call to explain it again.

Thanks for all the idea's so far will post again and let you know how things are going later in the week

Steve

I had the same problem.
Have you checked the condition of the fuel filler neck under the filler cap? if you haven't and its the original one chances are it is rotten and letting water, dirt and rust into the petrol tank.

I changed the one on mine, along with the carburettor, changed it to a manual choke weber from pierburg 2e2, I changed the fuel pump, vapour seperator, took the distributor apart and replaced the hall sender unit in it, replaced all the vacuum hoses and made sure they were all routed correctly, changed the plugs and leads and fished a load of crap out of the fuel tank, but after replacing all those things it still cut out.

I took it to a local mechanic that knows his way around these engines and got him to check the timing and while he was at it he checked for vacuum leaks. All was as it should be and he suggested that the filter on the end of the fuel sender unit in the petrol tank needed a small v cut into it to let the fuel flow more freely (have seen this suggested before on this forum).
I was apprehensive of doing this but as a last resort decided that I had nothing to lose, so tried it and that is what cured the problem in the end.
I have kept an eye on the in line fuel filter and have had to replace a couple of them as they have filled up with crap from the tank but it seems to be running through clear now.

So,to recap, my problem was rotten filler neck letting debris into fuel tank, when driven the debris was sucked against the filter on the sender unit causing fuel starvation, car stalled, debris fell to bottom of tank, car would restart, and process would just repeat itself.
Solution, change rotten filler neck and allow more fuel through sender unit.

HTH

Cheers
Rowdy

rowdy said

I had the same problem.
Have you checked the condition of the fuel filler neck under the filler cap? if you haven't and its the original one chances are it is rotten and letting water, dirt and rust into the petrol tank.

I changed the one on mine, along with the carburettor, changed it to a manual choke weber from pierburg 2e2, I changed the fuel pump, vapour seperator, took the distributor apart and replaced the hall sender unit in it, replaced all the vacuum hoses and made sure they were all routed correctly, changed the plugs and leads and fished a load of crap out of the fuel tank, but after replacing all those things it still cut out.

I took it to a local mechanic that knows his way around these engines and got him to check the timing and while he was at it he checked for vacuum leaks. All was as it should be and he suggested that the filter on the end of the fuel sender unit in the petrol tank needed a small v cut into it to let the fuel flow more freely (have seen this suggested before on this forum).
I was apprehensive of doing this but as a last resort decided that I had nothing to lose, so tried it and that is what cured the problem in the end.
I have kept an eye on the in line fuel filter and have had to replace a couple of them as they have filled up with crap from the tank but it seems to be running through clear now.

So,to recap, my problem was rotten filler neck letting debris into fuel tank, when driven the debris was sucked against the filter on the sender unit causing fuel starvation, car stalled, debris fell to bottom of tank, car would restart, and process would just repeat itself.
Solution, change rotten filler neck and allow more fuel through sender unit.

HTH

Cheers
Rowdy

The fuel filler neck has already been changed before i got the car from the looks of it, no signs of rust or anything.

When i removed the sender unit there wasn't actually a filter attached to the end of the pipe, I had actually thought of taking one end off my inline filter and placing on the end, as i guessed it should of had one.  
Then i decided to just have the inline filter situated next to the tank, i may have to change it slightly more, but it's a lot easier to get to and easier to change.

I should have time later today, weather permitting, to block the fuel return today and modify the fuel pump holes and see how that goes.
Will let you know if i still have trouble after that.  Seems that everyone has the same problems, but not one definate answer to cure it.
Steve

rowdy, you may very well be the answer to my prayers, such a simple thing when you read it but christ is it annoying when your chasing a fault, going to try this on friday, along with my inlet gasket change. cheers dude

redhouse said

rowdy, you may very well be the answer to my prayers, such a simple thing when you read it but christ is it annoying when your chasing a fault, going to try this on friday, along with my inlet gasket change. cheers dude

Might be worth getting up early and doing it first thing and give it a good run, might save you the hastle of changing inlet manifold gasket, unless of course you know if that is goosed anyway.

Mine wouldn't go more than half a mile without cutting out, or at least trying to cut out. Since putting the cut in the filter it hasn't cut out yet and has done a good few miles without issue.
I placed the cut on the upper side of the filter to make it less likely to suck crud through, but be advised to buy a couple of inline fuel filters as they will get clogged up for a little while before it clears.

Good luck.
Rowdy

(nice car btw)

genius,i will do just that, bought a new fuel pump today too, the inlet is definatly letting air in on one pot, but would have thought that would still run, do you/he have to drop the fuel tank to get to the   sender out? or is there maybe an access panel in the shell?

redhouse said

genius,i will do just that, bought a new fuel pump today too, the inlet is definatly letting air in on one pot, but would have thought that would still run, do you/he have to drop the fuel tank to get to the   sender out? or is there maybe an access panel in the shell?

Yeah, wouldn't have thought a blowing manifold gasket would cause cutting out, just ruff idling/hunting I would have thought.

You do not have to take the tank out to get to the sender unit, just take the back seat out and there is a round panel held in by three screws under the seat. Once this is removed you will find the top of the sender unit, with the two fuel pipes attached to it. Unplug the wire connector and the two fuel pipes (mark them so you know which side is which) and rotate the sender unit anti-clockwise 1/4 of a turn (I think, may be 1/2 a turn, can't remember) and carefully lift the sender unit out.

Just a note, the sender unit is fairly difficult to turn and be gentle with it, I broke the top of mine and had to araldite it back together rather than pay volkswagen £100+ for a new one!

Also, while you have the fuel pipes off of the sender unit, undo the fuel pipe from the inline fuel filter in the engine bay and put an empty coke bottle on one end and blow through the other end to make sure it isn't blocked, you may want the help of a friend to feel one end whilst you blow down the other end to check its clear and that air is coming out when you blow through it.

There is a tutorial on here somewhere on how to remove the sender unit, have a quick search I'm sure you will find it.

HTH

Rowdy

Redhouse, try this The Mk1 Golf Owners Club

Rowdy

cheers rowdy, checked it a minute ago and it was shiny clean and not a floater in sight, tank looks new, changed the fuel pump and that didnt cure it either,

Well things are looking up fo0r me at the moment, I did the modification to the fuel pump, and it ran ok done about 5 miles round town, where it would normally do under 3 and all was good.  So went out onto the dual carriageway, done 16 miles at 70-80, ran really well had one cough at 16 miles.  With that in mind i pulled over blocked off the fuel return pipe, and since then done about another 25 miles without a problem, sometimes smells a little petroly but i think we may just be running rich now

Will take it out again a few times over the weekend and hope all stays well

Steve

Another thing to check which i have not seen yet is the fuel filter inside the weber carb. Its only a small one which is easily blocked if a previous inline one hasn't already been fitted/done its job properly. To find it follow the fuel tubing to the carb then around this area of the carb is a brass nut about 17/19mm. Unscrew this and it's there. I think it is only accessable with the carb off though.

Have not had this problem myself but a good friend of mine had this problem with his mk1 cabrio and found it to be the rubber seal on the fuel filler cap.
The seal had worn a bit and was allowing water into the tank causing the car to loose power.
Could be a cheap solution to try out.