VWII calipers fit on standard carriers?? 1.3

Ok, I concede! up until '91 most polo's were teeves according to vagcat althought the vwII are listed as parts.

from '91 all mk3 polo's had VWII and 239x10 discs. vw don't list the teeves from then on!

funnily vagcat doesn't show different carriers for the G40??? which is odd coz I thought they were different. I'm thinking maybe we need a bit of joint club research so i'm gonna post on polo3.co.uk and ask lol

Jon.

I have a (mk2f) mk3 (90-94) polo 1.3 and it has solid discs.. as far as i'm aware as has already been stated it is only the g40 that has vented discs (VWII) and possibly the run out genesis model …

 

nb. Just checked, The solid carrier has a diferent part no. to vented carrier.

 

rubjonny said

No the MK3 polo wasnt the same across the range, the G40 got VWII calipers and different carriers  
On the VWII calipers one guide pin is longer than the other due to the thickness of the disc, thats the only real difference to the mounting hardware. The bolts are still M8 on all the VWI and VWII setups so not going to shear either way.

The difference with the Golf is 1.0-1.3 MK1 uses a completly different front brake setup to the low end polo, not VWI.  Its a 1 pice caliper design, without a seperate carrier
The MK1 Golfs from 1.5 up all use VWII calipers, the carriers are the same between GTI and non GTI they just had a few changes in casting over the years.

The non GTIs use 239x12 discs and thick pads, GTIs use 239x20 discs and thin pads. Sliders etc are all the same.  The change with the hoop you mention sounds like a late MK1 thing, I have seen for myself Golf tintop carriers dont have a front bar but later scirocco/cabrio ones do.

g40jon: since you have both do you think you could take a close look at the carriers on both your cars and see if you can spot exactly what is different?  My thoughts are the VWI carrier may be a bit narrower as its only supposed to fit over 239x10mm discs?

robbed from one of my other polo buddies

here's some pics, don't know if they help you or not.

from left to right, mk1 golf gti, mk3 polo solid disk, mk3 polo g40



from left to right, mk1 golf gti, , mk3 polo g40, mk3 polo solid disk

Crowson_punk said

Ok, I concede! up until '91 most polo's were teeves according to vagcat althought the vwII are listed as parts.
from '91 all mk3 polo's had VWII and 239x10 discs. vw don't list the teeves from then on!

Gah! no they didn't
I think you are getting confused here. VWII calipers were only fitted to models with 239x12 or 239x20 discs. Calipers for 239x10 were VWI. They might look the same as VWII but they are not. Look at vagcat again, properly this time
You'll see for the MK3 Polo, they all had 239x10 discs, with caliper:
191 615 123
except the G40 which has 239x20 discs, and part number:
1H0 615 123/4 A

Note that vagcat specifically says 'VWII' for the G40 calipers

The MK2 Polo either had teves or VWI, the VWII was only fitted to the MK2 Polo G40 (and yes they did exist!)

Crowson_punk said

funnily vagcat doesn't show different carriers for the G40??? which is odd coz I thought they were different. I'm thinking maybe we need a bit of joint club research so i'm gonna post on polo3.co.uk and ask lol

Yes it does, look again

867 615 125 - Polo VWI solid disc carrier
321 615 127 B - Polo G40 VWII vented disc carrier


g40jon: looking at that picture I cant see any difference between the solid polo carrier and the MK1 GTI. Based on that I see no reason why the solid polo carriers cant be used for vented calipers
Ideally be nice to have a better pic, but as long as the pad sliders are the same I cant think of any reason why it wouldnt work.  I assume there must be some tiny difference though as the MK1 early carrier isnt in ETKA anymore, if it was identical to the Polo solid carrier then it would probably be shown for the MK1 GTI as well.

Also just had another look at ETKA, the Polo G40 carrier is the same part number as the later Scirocco and Cabrio carriers.  The only issue with these is that hoop, it can prevent certain wheels from fitting. You often see people swapping back to he early GTI carriers to gain a bit of clearance.

That is a vwII calliper. made by ate

The carriers are dif I agreed.

if you look at the above pic, the solid disk calliper has thicker pads than the g40/mk1 gti

to fit vented discs you fit the thinner pads and the discs.

That is how it works.

The carriers are dif and the pic shows that. g40 carrier appears reinforced.

The dif on the calliper is purely cosmetic and down to the company that made them. only dif is the ribbing and the slot in the top rather than just a hole. helps with water and dust dispersion.  In fact looking at the design of the polo3 calliper, I would say it was a better design than the others… all that reinforcing and the larger slot?


The only other front calliper is the kelsey hays which retains the pads with a wire clip as per vauxhall callipers.

he asked about vented disc fitting. and this has been answered. late mk3 polo callipers and carriers don't carry the mark up of gti/g40/g60 parts and you CAN fit vented discs if you use the right pads.

I have them on my car. I can take a picture if this helps.  I needed no different parts and will fit vented discs once my pads have worn down enough for me to fit them.

Jon.

yeah but the early MK1 GTI carriers didnt have the hoop, and looked the same as the solid disc polo carriers. the later MK1 cabrio and scirocco vented carriers switched to the Polo G40 shape.

If you look closely at the MK1 GTI and Polo solid carrier, they're actually much more beefy than the G40 carriers at the back edge. I suspect the G40 carrier may even be lighter than the MK1 carrier, but the strength is retained using the front brace.

Also solid vs vented calipers was NOT just a cosmetic change, its a completly different caliper. VWI and VWII calipers DO exist, the solid discs on the Polo 3 use VWI NOT VWII.  Look on VAGCAT at the Polo & MK2 Golf. you'll note that 239x12/20 calipers are a different part number to the 239x10 caliper, and its nothing to do with how it looks, its different because it needs to be physically bigger to fit over the brakes!

You can even see this difference above, note pic 1 with the GTI caliper on the left and the solid caliper in the middle. You can clearly see the vented caliper is bigger!

edit: if it doesnt have 'VWII' stamped on the outside of the caliper, its not VWII

See if you look closer there is a difference, the mk1 gti one just has a little pad rub on the top of the caliper which might be throwing you off, ie the distance between the outside edge and inside one, here is a quick edit on paint, but please not the calipers are sitting at a slight angle on the photo but it is still clear they are two different sizes, and slightly different design…



And the distance between the inside edge and the mounting holes are slightly different too, just by a few mm!! So i would hazard a guess at the carriers being different!!

hmm yeah i see. I always thought VW1 were a totally different design!

I stand 100% corrected!!!  :mrgreen:

i'm guessing then that VW2 have bigger pistons as well as compared to my mates mk1 jetta I have a lot less dead pedal than she does and hers has the late gti setup.

Jon.

nope its the same size, caliper seal kit is the same on both: 171 698 471 B

the overall condition and adjustment of the braking system is important, I found my girlfiends MK3 Polo had much better brakes than my MK2 GTI. I'd almost be nutting the steering wheel everytime I stopped!  Nothing to do with the calipers, just my GTIs brakes were in a bit of a poor state.  To be fair it had done almost twice the miles  

Sounds like once i've done the headgasket and a few other bits this weekend I shall bleeding her brakes then!!!!

prob just needing new fluid, but i think said it's due pads so will have a butchers whilst the wheels off.

Jon

Any chance that the important info could be consolidated into a single post?

There are lots of conflicting opinions, and it is a bit confusing. (To a mong like me anyway :roll: )

rubjonny said

The MK1 Golf had either the teves setup, or VWII. It didnt have VWI.  Let me brake it down: (see what I did there? )
Teves = 239x10mm
VWI = 239x10mm
VWII = 239x12mm or 239x20mm

Teves calipers are also with 239x12mm and 239x20mm on the Mk1 Golf  :wink:

Hmm maybe I'm confused, do teves make VWI and VWII calipers as well then?

If so, who makes the 1.0-1.3 239x10 solid brake setup, with the small square pads?

I don't know what you mean by VW I.

Teves made the floating caliper fitted to all models (year dependent) in all disc sizes and the VWII caliper fitted to late GTis.

Girling also made a slightly different floating caliper as fitted to non-GTis (year dependent)

As I said earlier on, there are 2 vastly different types of brake setup on the MK1.
The 1.0-1.3 used an all-in-one caliper/carrier setup, with 239x10 discs and small square pads. The 1.5 up models used 239x12 or 239x20 discs, and VWII calipers, these use a seperate carrier.

VWI is a later caliper which works on 239x10 discs, visually very similar to VWII. These were not fitted to the MK1 Golf. They came on Polos and MK2 Golfs

I assumed the 1.0-1.3 all-in-one setup was made by teves, but I may be wrong on that.

Ah right I only know Mk1 Golf so not heard of the VWI terminology.

As I said the "all in one" or floating caliper was made by Teves and Gerling. It was also used on 239x12 or 239x20 discs before 1979 when the VWII caliper arrived. Yes I have small postage stamp pads on my early GTIs/carb big blocks!

ahh you never said pre 1979 before, now I get you