1.6 GTI Gearbox, replace / rebuild?

Hi!

The syncro's in my 1st and 2nd gear is worn.
I am wondering if it would be best to rebuild or replace.

As i am running it on 13" i would really like a longer 5th gear.

Can anyone tell me what the original 1.6 GTI Gearbox was? (5 Speed)
Where can i find the type plate on my gearbox. I am assuming it is the original as the rest of the car is original.

What do i really need to buy if i want to rebuild it? I am trying to figure out what would be cheapest.

Is it possible to fit a eg. Diesel 5th gear? Or is there a gearbox that would suit me better? I would really a 5th gear that gives me the opportunity of cruising at around 70mph without getting over 4000rpm (as i am now…)

Which gearboxes fit? And what cars do i have to look for at the junkyard?

gearbox rebuild isnt for faint of heart, though 5th swap is pretty easy. MK2 1.6 box will bolt right on, GTI and MK3 boxes have 100mm inner flanges so wont fit your shafts. late spec 90mm flanges will fit MK2 and MK3 boxes though.

have a read on brokes site:
Welcome to BrokeVW.com

Hi,

Just bought a mk 1 1600gti 1980' with exactly the same symptons, not imminent but on the box is on its way!! Do I read right that the mk 2 1600 box is the same as the mk 1 gti? Been trying to source a mk 1 box off fleabay but as yet have had no luck

Googled a place that supplies a recon box on an exchange basis for ?500, but that is out of the question seen as the cars only worth two of them!!

cheers

rob

same externally so bolt right on, but the ratios are very different. oh and mk2 1600 later boxes will have a 2 pin reverse switch so if you have the chunky mpg gauge & upshift light this will stop working

Hmm a bit confused.

I should measure my innerflange to find out if it is 90 or 100mm as it is possible that i have late spec 100mm?

If i have 90mm i have to find a 1.6GTI box, a Golf 2 1.6 (with wrong ratio) or rebuild my own.

If i have 100mm i can use a Golf 2 and Golf 2 Boxes

How do i make a 90mm shaft 100mm? Is it replacement or do i have to find a workshop that can weld a 90mm and a 100mm together?

if you have 90mm, you either need mk1 gti box, early scritocco/cabby or mk2 1.6 for direct bolt on fitment. you can fit late mk2 1.6 90mm flanges to mk2 and mk3 gearbox, ealry mk1 flanges are a bit different I believe due to the different flange seal arrangment on the later boxes:
020 Flange

other option is to fit 100mm shafdts from a late mk1 cab/rocco, then you can use any 100mm flange box, providing the studs/.holes are there for the MK1 rear mount:
020Mount

Does the mk 2 box have a more desirable ratio then the mk one? Have no experience with this box, how is the top end/ acceleration affected?
cheers

My advice: if its a Mk1 GTI, keep to the same ratios you already have, eg use the Gear Ratio Guide on the left and match the current box to a replacement (gearbox codes). Note also, that all the other relevant fitting info is there (flange size, rear mounting, reverse light switch) and that the list covers all 020 boxes, ie in other cars as well as Mk1 Golf.

In terms of costs - work out the total cost of fitting a secondhand box (for example price secondhand + cost of fitting, or a nominal cost due to doing it yourself, etc). Then factor in a probability that you might have to do it all again, if you get a 'duff' secondhand spare. Then compare with the cost of fitting a freshly reconditioned box, which will have much less probability of being duff. In other words, depending on your own circumstances it might be better to buy a reconditioned box for peace of mind. Others might find it worthwhile taking a chance on a secondhand ?50 box.

I've tried both a MK1 GTI and MK2 GTI box on my KR engine, MK1 box is deffo quicker accelleration thanks to the short ratios, but then you're stuck with a short 5th which makes cruising not as comfortable.  Not a massive amount in it but it does make a difference. MK2 GTI box is still quick thru the gears and nicer in 5th.  If you can find a good MK1 box the 5th gear can be swapped for a taller one easily enough to give you the best of both, though if you go toooo tall you might find going from 4th to 5th a bit of a jump.  
I had a 4+e in my driver and I loved it for economy, but basically 5th was a cruise gear and thats all, I didnt have the torque to pull at all, could go quicker in 4th!  Though this was a 1.6 driver, something beefier might manage better.

handy ratio calc here:
Gear Up!

also note that MK1 & 2 GTI boxes have a different final drive, whihc means different speedo gear is required.

Where do i find the gearbox type plate?

Edit: My gearbox is an FF. Is that original?

flat area on the bottom of the bellhousing

FF - From 1981.

Where do i go from now?
What would YOU fit?

And yes i am in to the cruising 5th gear as mentioned before.

FF or FD if you can find one, can fit a taller 5th easily if you like.  otherwise MK2 GTI box, then either fit 100mm late cab driveshafts, or swap in late driver 90mm flanges

basically, see what you can pick up thats good! you dont exactly have the luxury of choice for good gearboxes these days

rubjonny said

FF or FD if you can find one, can fit a taller 5th easily if you like.  otherwise MK2 GTI box, then either fit 100mm late cab driveshafts, or swap in late driver 90mm flanges

basically, see what you can pick up thats good! you dont exactly have the luxury of choice for good gearboxes these days

I don't understand why you're making the distinction between 1600 GTI box (with 3.89 FD) and Mk2 GTI box with 3.67 FD. There are plenty of 1800 Mk1 GTI boxes out there with 90mm flanges, 3.67FD and close ratio 5 speeds.

read my posts then, you'll see why
like i said before, MK2 gti has slightly taller ratios, but still pretty tight. 5th in particular is better for crusing. You'll note the OP has specifically said he wants better cruising

My main point is, go for whichever you can get thats in good nick!  If you get a MK2 box you can still use it, simply by swapping flanges.

edit: my other point is even if you get a short ratio box with a short 5th, you can easily swap it for a taller one.  Just trying to cover all the angles rather than saying 'the only box you can use is X' and therefore narrowing the options considerably.

rubjonny said

read my posts then, you'll see why
like i said before, MK2 gti has slightly taller ratios, but still pretty tight. 5th in particular is better for crusing. You'll note the OP has specifically said he wants better cruising

My main point is, go for whichever you can get thats in good nick!  If you get a MK2 box you can still use it, simply by swapping flanges.

edit: my other point is even if you get a short ratio box with a short 5th, you can easily swap it for a taller one.  Just trying to cover all the angles rather than saying 'the only box you can use is X' and therefore narrowing the options considerably.

Mk1 Golf 1800 and Mk2 Golf 1800 have same ratios, so I thought? The only difference being Mk2s from 1985 and on have 100mm flanges. Later on they made a higher 2nd gear, simply to reach 60mph in 2nd and thus the 0-60 time was better. 16V boxes have a slightly LOWER 5th. You can't go by the years in the gear ratio guide, they're very inaccurate!

I simply answered the question on an "if I were you" basis, with experience of 1600 GTI, 1800 GTI and 4+E boxes in standard and modified Golfs and Sciroccos. 1800 box in a 1600 GTI will blunt its performance a little, and take away some of the feeling of it being sporty (IMHO).

Not sure about 1800 MK1 boxes, I was just saying that although the MK2 box has slightly taller ratios its still pretty good. As I said I've had both 1600 and 1800 (8v) GTI boxes on my 16v KR.  The FD definitly has the edge on accelleration, but you're stuck buzzing away in 5th, even more of a handicap in an 8v as its not got so much at the high end as a 16v too.
I wouldnt say the MK2 box is really going to effect the 1600 performance that much, its only 2bhp less and revs better!

16v 5th is shorter than 8v yes, but there isnt a massive amount in it, I've had 8v and 16v box in my MK2 as well. Trouble with 16v box is you need a different friction disc and you have a limited choice of 5th gears to choose from, only MK3 2.0 8v ones fit it.

Like I said, what I'm trying to do is explain allthe possible options for gearboxes, plus what is required to get certain boxes to fit. What you need when gearbox shopping is options, they are all getting on a bit so if you can find a good tight one thats the one to go for.

Its all very well saying theres plenty 1800 MK1 boxes out there, if you cant actually find any close to you. What if he stumbles across a mint MK2 box, are you saying he should pass it up?  

You're right, it depends on availability, distance (or delivery possible etc), cost and urgency to sort it all out. I'd choose to seek a box with the correct flanges rather than swap the driveshafts or flanges over, simply for convenience, but its a worthwhile suggestion to mention they are not too hard to swap. I'd evaluate carefully my particular requirements and seek the correct ratios, rather than compromise here, though.

The 1600 engine is more to do with top end power than low end torque, yes there's only 2bhp in it but there's a lot more than 2 torques in it!

16V box was only mentioned for completeness in discussing the range of close ratio boxes "out there".

I'm just listing all the options, rather than suggesting any particular box. after all, your idea of 'compromise' might be someone elses idea of 'optimal'

MK3 GTI box has even taller ratios though still a bit 'sporty' (compared to say, a diesel box) again you need 16v pressure plate tho and a flange swap.  Though MK3s seem to suffer badly from chipped reverse teeth, guess its all that extra weight!

Yeah I know what you mean. My idea of 'compromise' is based on the experience of driving a car with non-optimal gear ratios (Scirocco GTI fitted with 4+E box). It sucked the character out of driving it and made it a bore. I kept trying to tell myself "well, you're saving 8% fuel, its okay, keep going, you're not just waiting to die" but it didn't really help my mood. I'd not want someone to suffer, as I did.