IS YOUR CAR OVER 25 YEARS OLD AND YOUR STILL PAYING TAX?

I think personally paying tax on a quality little motor that has frankly done its time to the road should NOT have to pay tax.

We live in such a throw away nation that nothing is cared for as it should be. But I do, I care for my car and look after her. Shes is old and tired. She is nothing compared to modern engines.  She is however mine and I want to keep her.

The government needs to recognise us small minority (all clasic car owners) and give us a break

If you agree with me then do as I have done and sign the Governments e petition and hopefully it will encourage the government to re-consider and help keep a great pasion for many of us alive.

Plus it will save you a bob or two!!!



http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/CarTax1973/


Sorry if I went over the top with the speech-I went a bit Maggie Thatcher  :dontknow:

Just sign it though……what can it hurt? The worst it will do is nothing.

How much tax do HGVs pay?

A better way would be road charging, ie a cost which varies according to the roads you use and the time you use them. In other words, if you use the Mk1 Golf as the regular driver and at peak hours, you'd pay roughly equivalent to everyone else. And if you only occasionally used it, eg at weekends only, or just for going to/from shows and meetings, then you'd pay hardly anything.

I don't think there's any fairness in simply drawing an arbitary line, eg 25 years, and then saying those younger pay ?185 and those older pay ?0. For a start, you've just upset 1984 and on cabby and Citigolf owners!

But the current system is pretty unfair too.


Its a shame there was that massive petition (over 1 million, wasn't it?)against road charging, since it was actually not such a bad idea and would have worked out cheaper for a number of us on here. But then people like clicking links on the internet and moaning, right?

paul_c said

But then people like clicking links on the internet and moaning, right?

Agree with you there, and to be honest I think the OP reads like it was plucked from the Daily Mail.

If you care about your car as much as you say you do, then surely Road Tax is just one of the minor inconveniences of owning an older car? I know that it's a bit steep but suck it up and deal with it. It's part of owning an old car.

It's worth paying it to be able to drive the thing at all.

Ah my friend, you miss the point!

Its a rolling tax.  I.E. Once your car is over 25 years old you dont pay road tax. Therefore anyone with a 80's car has only to stick with it.

Encouraging people to look after the older cars.

 :wink:

Yes, but I think Paul's point was that half of the people on here would get the benefit instantly, while some would have to wait as much as 9 years. Where's the fairness in that?

No Daily Mail comments here, only my own!

Like your thinking and I agree it will only benefit some.

Let me put it another way, If you were to buy a car and you had ?800 to spend, you could get a nice little N reg Corsa or T reg VW Bora.

Youd buy it, insure it, MOT it and tax it. As it got older you would have to repair bits, bushes, brakes etc

Now take the same money and buy a Golf mk1.

Again youd buy it, insure it and repair any faults!
There was no tax because of the age of it. Because it was old. Because the government thinks that there are so many cars in production that most of the old ones would be traded in and scrapped. THE MAIN PROBLEM HERE IS THE GOVERNMENT DOESNT REALLY THINK THAT!

Let me ask you. If you own an old car, are you keeping it?
Do you think for your loyalty and taking on the responsibility you should get something back for not going out and buying a new car recycled from other bits of car?

When is life fair?  Some will instantly feel the benefit whilst others will have to wait, but that in itself is an incentive to know your old car will cost less to run (therefore more money to repair/improve.)

Lets not be narrow minded about this its just a petition to agree with the ruling. If you dont like it then dont sign it.


We all know the mk1 is a classic so, should it be treated as one?

That's a good argument for a one off tax upon purchase, then either completely sacking off road tax (and adding all the tax onto fuel?) or having a sliding scale with age. But not for a sharp 25 year cut off.

There's been a couple of other suggestions on how the government could deal with classics:

- No tax, but not allowed to be used on the roads except to-from official car shows and events, etc.
- An interest free loan incentive scheme if you scrap an old (>10 year) car and buy a new one.

These are not made up, they're ACTUAL SCHEMES which run in other European countries (I can scan the article in for the 2nd if needs be).

So its clear to see that the Government aren't buying the idea that an older car is more environmentally friendly (which it is, because continuing to use an older car SAVES the environmental cost of manufacturing a new car). In fact, they're suggesting it not so much for environmental concerns but to incentivise us to buy new cars and kick start the troubled car manufacturing industry.

totally agree, signed

I agree with you whole hartedly. The economic downturn is playing a part in all aspects, tax being one of them!

The problem being is there are no schemes at all to recognise the implications of buying a new car.

I own an Audi Q7 as well as my Golf and get taxed heavily as its a big car but I chose that car/monster truck and as Tyness put it, I AM sucking it up.  :wink:

Pity the Government only has this e-petition. At least it gets them thinking about it (even if it doesnt happen!)

yep2yep said

Let me ask you. If you own an old car, are you keeping it?
Do you think for your loyalty and taking on the responsibility you should get something back for not going out and buying a new car recycled from other bits of car?

Sorry, but I don't understand where you're coming from with this. Why is it about reward? Why does somebody else have to validate your choice of car by "rewarding" you with free tax? You chose to buy it, that's not the government's problem.

We're certainly not doing the government any favours by running an old car. I'd wager it's a lot less efficient than other cars of the same size (dimensions, not engine capacity), and again I'd wager it's comparatively unsafe. And as Paul mentioned, none of us are doing the economy any favours by buying an old car in a private sale.

It's not the petition that I disagree with, I just really don't understand the argument you're using to get the point across. :dontknow:

Mat

link to the ?800 bora please

mk1john said

link to the ?800 bora please

Ha! I did also wonder about that  

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLKSWAGEN-BORA-SE-2-0-BLUE-CALL-WITH-OFFERS_W0QQitemZ130289288651QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item130289288651&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A5%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318

Sold it the other day!

I lied……being honest it went for ?1250 but you get the idea  :mrgreen:

Oh dear  :roll:

tyeness said

Sorry, but I don't understand where you're coming from with this. Why is it about reward? Why does somebody else have to validate your choice of car by "rewarding" you with free tax? You chose to buy it, that's not the government's problem.

We're certainly not doing the government any favours by running an old car. I'd wager it's a lot less efficient than other cars of the same size (dimensions, not engine capacity), and again I'd wager it's comparatively unsafe. And as Paul mentioned, none of us are doing the economy any favours by buying an old car in a private sale.

I agree we are not doing the government any favours by owning old cars.
I just think if a car was exempt or lower on tax it would encourage people to keep their cars for longer.

VAT
TAX
INSURANCE

They all make the fat cats richer. They would rather everyone buy new cars every 2/3 years, but at the same time be seen to care for the enviroment.

Your actually wrong, the efficiency of your car is more than that of a Toyota Prius. The fact of the matter it costs more to make new cars, sourcing materials from all over the world for production, shipping them around the world. Power for the factories. I could go on. You need to do your homework before saying things like that as a fact   

We are detracting from the point.

I dont think my car should pay tax once it reaches 25 years (like splittys!) Either you agree or you dont. The government has a petition, its up to you. Simples   :dontknow:

I have opened a good can of worms though.

tyeness said

Yes, but I think Paul's point was that half of the people on here would get the benefit instantly, while some would have to wait as much as 9 years. Where's the fairness in that?

you could be missing the point of the op, as just now those waiting 9 years will have to wait till they can afford to buy a car that qualifies, or not get any tax free motoring at all, that's unfair in my book.

I don't think, however, that it should be a rolling 25 year, it should be done on usage, classic cars that aren't daily drivers can have reduced tax due to their low usage and heritage status.  Cap the milage that can be driven each year by these cars.  Then cars that are driven daily, or are driven normal milage but only in summer, should have to pay like everyone else.  

And just so you know i'm not biased, i would be one of the folk paying normal prices for mine in summer.

I disagree, though, with the 'we're  not doing the gov a favour having old cars' yes we are we pay more road tax and petrol than newer cars of the same engine size cos we 'pollute' more.  Therefore, adding to the coffers with our smoggy salute.

The other way around it is to only pay when your actually driving the car on the road, not when it's sat idlely attracting rust in your garage or on your driveway.

yep2yep said

Your actually wrong, the efficiency of your car is more than that of a Toyota Prius. The fact of the matter it costs more to make new cars, sourcing materials from all over the world for production, shipping them around the world. Power for the factories. I could go on. You need to do your homework before saying things like that as a fact   

Ok, I undertand where you're coming from now. I'm sorry I forgot to include any "homework", but I thought since your OP was completely devoid of any that I needn't bother.  :roll:

And if you can point out where I based my argument on my perceived cost of the production process of new cars, and where I stated anything to be fact then I'll gladly retract all that I've said. Otherwise, please keep the mildly condescending "Get your facts right Sonny" kind of talk to yourself

And while we're on the subject of homework, can you tell me a) the actual (not toyota's claimed) mpg of a toyota prius, and b) the mpg of my car?

Lessy-Jim said

tyeness said

Yes, but I think Paul's point was that half of the people on here would get the benefit instantly, while some would have to wait as much as 9 years. Where's the fairness in that?

you could be missing the point of the op, as just now those waiting 9 years will have to wait till they can afford to buy a car that qualifies, or not get any tax free motoring at all, that's unfair in my book.

I think I'm lost. What I intended to say was that I thought it would be unfair for owners of '93 Cabrios, for example, would have to wait a further 9 years before tax exemption, so I don't undestand what you mean about waiting till they can buy a car that qualifies?  :dontknow:  I think we might be agreeing, but I'm not sure  :mrgreen:

I think a good idea would be to put the road tax on fuel, a percentage on top if ya like.

No issues with a yearly fee, just pay as you go.

To me it seems the better option