How do we fix broken Britain?

Timski said

Definately a re introduction of Military Service….

I've never understood this. Why would you infect one of the world's greatest fighting units with the bad apples we're currently trying to weed out?


T :naughty:

Tian said

Timski said

Definately a re introduction of Military Service….

I've never understood this. Why would you infect one of the world's greatest fighting units with the bad apples we're currently trying to weed out?


T :naughty:

How did i  know you would bite on that one Tian?

Easy mate.Its all about training and discipline and above all,respect.
Lots of Armies back in History have had people called up from everywalk of life  with bad apples and good apples alike and have performed well.If you look at the Wermacht during the early war years before Hitler decided to take on everyone they walked all over allcomers and they were all concripts.

Topoftherange said

Mmmmmmmmmm Military training naturaly makes you fit strong and aggresive/violent if un controlled

secondly our military is still the best in the world, feeding it with people who didnt want to be there would weaken our country defences

Just my thoughts though

I understand what you mean but when you say uncontrolled aggression,its totally the opposite in my view.
You are in a strict regime where you cant harm Jo public by just going out and starting trouble anytime you like.If you think your a hard case,the Army will see you right that your not,i witnessed it many times and i personally think it works.If you like to cause trouble,the Army will bang you up out of harms way and historically it proven that many people who go into the forces come out much calmer as 9/10 people will meet their match somewhere along the line.
I`d rather have thugs on the parade ground with a Sergeant Majors boot up their backside than kicking some innocent by standers head in on a saturday night..

corporal punishment for murderers and rapists,its just a basic lack of decent human respect and no reasoning will dissuade me.

id be happy if thieves had a hand or foot cut off(id also include vandals)

re-invent the 'dole'system our countries used to lead the way in steel working engineering and fabrication and now we get passed over for the low bidding low standard 3rd world countries

the whole get a baby get a house situation definately needs a look at

JUNKIES?????where do you start?dealers should be force fed any product they are found with,all of it,in one go until theyre dead. The addicts themselves should get a one of chance to get of the junk or use the extra left over when the dealers are finished for the same purpose

Jails-theyre a drain,kill the murderers rapists dealers and junkies and when theyre out the system bring back slopping out and bin the consoles dvds and tvs and re-introduce hard labour, its not supposed to be 'fun' or 'enjoyable' theyre in there to be punished

If there was less strain and costing in the jails and dole you could back of the law abiding taxed to death citizens

Trouble is though mate…..I used to be a soldier  In the Houshold Cavalry the Blues & Royals…….or the ones in blue tunics with red plumes in their helmets who sit on horses outside the London residence of Queenie :wink:

I am now a police officer  so obviously i managed to escape any trouble in the army (or just wasnt there when the 5-0 turned up )

Most soldiers as you say are fit strong and diciplined lads, they are obedient and do as they are told, but woe betide anyone outside the military who chalenges them or tries to assault them, especially when in groups on a night out!!! they all stick together, in a much more serious way than most "friends" would

In my town i have had to deal with a group of 4 paras who had recently returned from a tour and went out on the town, one of the paras made some sarcastic comment to a rather plump lady and the yokels all thought it a good idea to "beat" the para`s up……..you can fill in the rest :wink:  2 of the yokels were still in hospital a week later.. it dont show dicipline to beat people up but you can see what would happen if the person given the tools to do it mis uses it!!!

If you place undiciplined and worse still unwilling people and force them into that regime you will end up with a large percentage being more of a problem as you have now given them the means to be more violent etc by training them to be violent!! anyone who has ever done bayonet training will be able to tell you the extreme aggression you experience in an almost trance way

sure some people will make superb soldiers, but not many, its hard work, night and day 365 days a year really, you live in the army never outside it

Dont think too many people have the minerals or moral courage to do what our lads are doing in Afghanistan and iraq at the moment

I certainly dont think national service would serve any purpose other than to get lazy teenagers out of their parents hair for 2 years and also fill a few more military graveyards up!

The answer is to NOT give anyone benefits who dont/wont work, they would soon find a job of some sort even if its low paid they could then apply for financial assistance instead of getting a free handout for doing nowt!

the dole does in some cases hand out almost community service type jobs


this should be mandatory,goons are getting paid for nothing. Fair doos there are genuine folk out there losing their jobs and paid taxes all their lives but they are in the minority. Too many accept it as a hand-out. Couple months cutting grass and painting fences or building dykes in the rain would at least get some use out them and give them skills

disagree with the national service……. the wars in the middle east at the moment are pointless and in some respects illegal and immoral and to send more people there to die is a waste of life no matter who those people are.

as for corporal punishment yes to rapists murderers and peadophiles. but for chopping hands and feet off thieves and burgurlars i don't think would achieve much as you then end up with more people unable to work or get jobs and they will then really on crime just a different sort. although there was recently a guy with no legs nicked for pinching someones car? he was using broom handles to do the pedals!!

i think the government needs to invest more in the prison system so that there is enough room to let the judicial system put people away with sentances that fit the crime and get rid of open prisons whats that all about??. they should also relieve the police of some of the red tape they have to trawl through on a regular basis.

forgot paedos somehow,nasty ass cant describe the pain they need to suffer people but if a rapist deserves death then id want a re-incarnation potion to kill those deviants and bring them back to life just to be able to do them all over again  and again




and again








ad infinitum  

Timski said

Tian said

Timski said

Definately a re introduction of Military Service….

I've never understood this. Why would you infect one of the world's greatest fighting units with the bad apples we're currently trying to weed out?


T :naughty:

How did i  know you would bite on that one Tian?

Easy mate.Its all about training and discipline and above all,respect.
Lots of Armies back in History have had people called up from everywalk of life  with bad apples and good apples alike and have performed well.If you look at the Wermacht during the early war years before Hitler decided to take on everyone they walked all over allcomers and they were all concripts.

Brilliant mate but the whole premis of this thread is that times have changed.

It may have worked then but I simply can't see it working now and the reasons range from everything from European Rights to or current 'compo culture' right up to any Government having the balls to do it.

It might not be much fun or open to as much debate but I'm more interested in real world solutions, solutions that might actually be viable and workable.

I'll put my teeth back in the glass now.

T

Tian said

Timski said

Tian said

Timski said

Definately a re introduction of Military Service….

I've never understood this. Why would you infect one of the world's greatest fighting units with the bad apples we're currently trying to weed out?


T :naughty:

How did i  know you would bite on that one Tian?

Easy mate.Its all about training and discipline and above all,respect.
Lots of Armies back in History have had people called up from everywalk of life  with bad apples and good apples alike and have performed well.If you look at the Wermacht during the early war years before Hitler decided to take on everyone they walked all over allcomers and they were all concripts.

Brilliant mate but the whole premis of this thread is that times have changed.

It may have worked then but I simply can't see it working now and the reasons range from everything from European Rights to or current 'compo culture' right up to any Government having the balls to do it.

It might not be much fun or open to as much debate but I'm more interested in real world solutions, solutions that might actually be viable and workable.

I'll put my teeth back in the glass now.

Times change Tian but people dont.
Wether you like it or not human being need discipline and when that breaks down as it has in this country you get people just doing what they please and thats unacceptable in my book.
Why is it that a country like Switzerland which still has compulsory Military service has the lowest rate of gun and violent crime?
In Bavaria where i spend a lot of time i see no chavs,no anti social behaviour or drunken violence in the street and my place in slap bang in the centre of Munich,all German men after the age of 18 have to do either Military or social service.
No disrespect but your arguement doesnt hold up to any scrutiny at all fella.

T

If you think there's any chance of reintroducing Nation Service in this Country than good luck mate. I for one cant see it ever happening, that's my argument.

We have to look at solutions that we can make happen. That's what I'm saying and I find it hard to believe anyone could be against that!

Anyway I've said it three times now so at the risk of repeating myself that's all I have to add.


T

I agree with the sentiments posted here, but what about parenting classes,
sure a lot of you folks have been when you, your other half is expecting, learn how to hold the baby, feed, change etc most of the info throughout infancy, but then what? nothing, There is a problem that we have and that is called "The Family Court System" when a relationship breaks down 99% of the time the Mother ends up with the kids, If she wants to stop Father from having any thing to do with their Children she can and will, (I have yet to see a Court deal with a Defiant Parent yet) the times I hear about if you don't do this or that then you I wont' let you see the kids. Although not fair on the kids, it happens and yet the Social workers or Cafcass as they are known don't consider this to be a issue that is going to affect a child. I am not saying that being a single parent is a bed of roses for anyone, some blokes are not interested in their own kids. I firmly believe that a lot of societies ills start with the Family or broken homes. It is a fact that children from broken homes are more likely to end up in prostitution, drug abuse, violence, single parenthood, criminal convictions and have more mental health issues. Which may be handed down to the next generations.
Ok some home lives are not happy for what ever reason, but when adults use, blame the Children rather than taking responsibility themselves, we have serious social problems. Shared parenting works best, even if parents don't want to be together, at least some kids will have a Father figure that maybe when Mum has done all she can steps in. Discipline is the word, maybe a dirty word.

On the subject of parents I was reading the other day about how families don't sit together for there evening meal anymore. Obviously some can't due to shifts or whatever but some just do not.

I think there is alot to be said for this and does have an negative effect on families. Its the best time to talk to each other.

spot on Rob, the problem is irrespective of anyones working pattern there needs to be a time when families get together and eat, the Italians thrive on the fact that meal times are important, If you put kids in front of the telly then they become absorbed with the "magic lantern" in the corner and don't eat there food or comminicate, someone I know sits there kids in front of the telly and when they stop eating they get shouted at for not eating  

Sunday dinner is always a good time, roast beef, yorkie puds the works, but around the table, where folks can share whats happened in there week. Plus it saves getting dinner on your sofa, no wonder the sofa manufacturers are supplying washable covers, it's important that this time is spent, when kids hit their teens then they don't always want to come to Mum or Dad with thier problems, they go to thier mates who sometimes give bad advice, not because they are malicious, but because they don't really know themselves.
T.V. is not bad, when used properly but the industries around us appear perverse as well and parents are to blame, I know loads of Folks kids who talk about films, violent and gory way beyond their age rating, Argos at one point were selling Alien figures etc from the film yet the merchandise is aimed at infants yet the films are 18 classified, so how do the kids know what they are all about unless, I have no doubt that they have seen inappropriate films and we wonder why the poor, Boy God rest his soul, Jamie Bulger was murdered by thomson and Venables, who I believe are out now, those 2 watched all the violent films and thats what inspired them. (We used to hide when Dr Who came on). On an interview once I heard an 8 year old saying that she wanted to be a pole dancer so she could get loads of boys fancying her and lots of money, a 13 year old wanting a Breast enlargement, and when this crack pot government states it will give couples who cohabitate the same rights as those as married one woman pointed out that it is her ambition to get a bloke with money and his own place so she could take it off him  :dontknow: In my line of work I have to Deal with people from every walk of life, but what astounded me was this one day a not so regular client called in with his girlfriend with their 5 kids, the kids run riot, the mum spends her time shouting and yawping at the kids  "get here, now you little bar steward" to which the kids reply "flip off you pile of waste coal product" these are words from kids aged 4- 9. then one day In my usuall way I thought compulsory streilization was a good Idea, in between how I was going to ban them from my business, I believed in humann faith once again, I asked said bloke if he was having a good day and a busy one, knowing that he is a certified dole waller, expected a "Ner man"
when he announced that he had been busy " I been teaching me kids summat that gonna help em, when they older you knerr" halleluja I thought and I admonished my self for thinking so badly about him and his life style, So I said "Oh! great what have you been teaching them, some maths, English, helping to write thier own name? etc", he just stared at me with a red face and Said "ner, man stupid, I been teaching them how to play grand theft auto 3 on the play station, I don't want their mates to beat them when they older" I swear thats true  8O