reconditioned shells

Crowson_punk said

Like i said if you have the machinary a cheap panel will not be an issue. it is for us at home/workshops coz we don't all have press-brakes, benders and flanging machinery etc but a proper tooled up panel shop does.

I'm only saying a mk2 shell in a day as theres a lot less work. mk would be more, say 2 or 3 days.

cost it out on a basic level,

donor car= 250-500 depending on model, maybe more
profit from selling off interior, running gear etc = probs about 5-700 depending on what it is and condition.
so thats money in already. if it takes 3 days at 100/day for 2 guys thats 600
then obv theres the paint and sheet metal which wont cost a lot. so in theory they could retail at not much over a grand. even less if theres an exchange shell?

you give them your rotten shell and say 900 quid and you get one ready to paint and fit up??

this is blatantly a rough idea of values, not exact lol but it's food for thought

Jon.

two guys couldnt restore a mk1 shell and paint it in 3 days, especially if your only paying them ?100 a day your absolutely miles out, or should i say weeks!
paint alone to fully do a car would be ?500 atleast then you've got sealants waxes and all prep material.
the only way you could give a 5 year rust free warrenty would need the shell dipping and electrificated, this alone would cost somewhere in the region of ?2k.

i don't think so unless they work for royal mail.

Paint is only cheap ?80 tops!!

Some people obviously haven't a clue how long it takes to restore a shell. 1 day, yeah right, it takes that to do a single repair properly.

Until you do one for real you don't realise just how much work it takes.

As for making your own panels, good luck with that and remind me not to buy anyhting from you!

as i said, rough estimate?  having not tried a full car before in anything other than weekends I was making a guess? this topic actually seems to make people a bit cross! has done on every other forum I tried?

bit odd really!!!

and i was only suggesting zinc coating and priming, not a full paint job.

meh seems The world isn't ready to think about it yet.

To be honest I'd be happy to earn 100 a day doing it. would be a labour of love!  i'd do it for nowt if i could afford to.

Jon.

I help at a very reputable bodyshop as I have restored concours cars for about 20 years, a sideline is classic Escorts, you cannot turn a bare 'restoration' shell around for less than about ?8k painted, timescales vary on amount required but 'one days work' is cloud cuckoo land.

I would estimate at least 6 - 8 weeks, 8 hour days at ?40 per hour plus paint, panels and materials, plus the doner shells which we import some from dry climate Australia.

In almost all cases the end product cost far outweighs the final value, the difference is most are building the car they always wanted and intend to keep it.

cheers, Paul

Sounds like a half decent idea to me!

RUDDY said

I help at a very reputable bodyshop as I have restored concours cars for about 20 years, a sideline is classic Escorts, you cannot turn a bare 'restoration' shell around for less than about ?8k painted, timescales vary on amount required but 'one days work' is cloud cuckoo land.

I would estimate at least 6 - 8 weeks, 8 hour days at ?40 per hour plus paint, panels and materials, plus the doner shells which we import some from dry climate Australia.

In almost all cases the end product cost far outweighs the final value, the difference is most are building the car they always wanted and intend to keep it.

cheers, Paul

Surely if you was a one man band you would be able to pay yourself less than ?40 per hour?
If the shells are rotten in the same places the repairs are likely to get easier with time, yes or no?

golf1 said

RUDDY said

I help at a very reputable bodyshop as I have restored concours cars for about 20 years, a sideline is classic Escorts, you cannot turn a bare 'restoration' shell around for less than about ?8k painted, timescales vary on amount required but 'one days work' is cloud cuckoo land.

I would estimate at least 6 - 8 weeks, 8 hour days at ?40 per hour plus paint, panels and materials, plus the doner shells which we import some from dry climate Australia.

In almost all cases the end product cost far outweighs the final value, the difference is most are building the car they always wanted and intend to keep it.

cheers, Paul

Surely if you was a one man band you would be able to pay yourself less than ?40 per hour?
If the shells are rotten in the same places the repairs are likely to get easier with time?

Rent
Rates
Electricity
Tools
Consumables
+ all your other costs

are all still the same. That's why its a ?40/hour workshop rate, not the hourly rate of the person being paid to do the work. Their wages is only a fraction, albeit a significant one.

don't forget paul that the overheads are a lot lower if you're a one man band compared to reputable bodyshop.

golf1 said

don't forget paul that the overheads are a lot lower if you're a one man band compared to reputable bodyshop.

They're not, if you do your accounts properly and consider the costs on a "per job" basis (and don't have any 'gaps' in your work schedule, but that's a different issue). There will be economies of scale with a large workshop.

but each company charges on a "per job" basis a different rate.If you get a quote from say a main VW dealer to respray a car it will be a lot higher than a smaller company with lowedr overheads.

That's not down to the size, its due to charging what people (ie probably if main dealer, warranty claim or insurance job) are willing to pay! The one man band can't pick up insurance work so they'll deliberately position themselves slightly lower in the market.

so you finally agree that a one man band can do the job a lot cheaper, ie shells.

golf1 said

so you finally agree that a one man band can do the job a lot cheaper, ie shells.

The costs are roughly the same, the one man band can avoid certain overheads/admin and the big company can achieve an economy of scale on some things.

Its the admin and the overheads that ramp up the price. I don't mind paying a little extra for sandpaper and paint thats why I would be able to do it cheaper.

I like this debate cos if it continues looks like we all can have our cars sprayed for next to nowt at this rate  

How much do you think you can really honestley say you can restore a tin top shell for, with say 1 bad iner wing, one sill, and a rotten door and you would be happy if thats all you found. Repair, prep, spray and polish. Then cost for all parts, paint. How long would it take.

I dont know just asking  :dontknow: intresting

I don't think you can simply give an answer. I've seen several rusty Mk1 Golfs and there's some common areas where they rust, but then there's also some areas which might be completely rotten on some cars, yet good on others. Also bear in mind there's tons of different ways you can repair metalwork, simply slapping a panel over the top of a rusty area is acceptable to delay the scrapping of a car for another year (eg MoT repair on a budget) but this is different to cutting out the rotten metal, making a small/med sized piece, and welding it in using sealant, decent paint, wax, etc. And different again would be making or using an exact same panel as the original car, removing other panels if needs be and welding it all back together to give the 'factory' look to the repaired area. There's at least 10x the work in the latter than the former.

I think the shells should be supplied bare, with no doors, wings, hatch or bonnet to keep the costs down and should be primered only. The usual areas such as sills rear chassis, arches, front and rear panel should be repaired as necessary. Costs at estimate ?1.5k at a guess.

1.5k so how much for a sale of a shell as would think and from reading this thread 2k so 500 profit. Seems alot of money for a bare shell with no doors, bonet or owt and just primed. Just dont know how much people would pay as then there would be loads of other costs to the customer.

Love the idea tho if it can be done it would be nice

golf 1. read the 1st 2 pages. thats whats said. bare. just a shell no doors wings etc just the shell, rust-proofed and primed.

it wont be painted coz everyone wnats a dif colour, making it a bespoke job not just a semi mass produced outfit.

as far as overheads are concerned, i see you're point guys. but if that was the case there would be no small bodyshops. simple as.

by only doing the shell and selling the rest you cover that.

like i costed. buy a car for say 250 for a ratty mk2,

strip it to the bare shell.

sell all the crap for probs twice what the car is worth? if you want good doors fitted it costs more.

wheres the overheads? asbsorbed in the parts business which runs side byside. means cars that are broken aren't killed off, they're recycled.

this isn't a complete resto. just a recon shell. nowt more. how hard are we making this?????

could maybe even get some of the subsidies the government gives out to green industries lol

Jon.