Calling all professional painters - attempting DIY full car

Hi,

I'm thinking of spraying the top half of my MK1 Diamond Silver (L97A) and the bottom half Mars Red (LA3A). The red would be from the side strip down and the silver the side strip upwards. The current colour of the car is white. Someone has painted over the original white for some reason and the top white is flakey/ cracked and generally $h1te.

I have never sprayed before and am looking to do this over the coming weeks. I am in the process of getting all the materials (2k primers, 2k base, 2k laquer, spray gun, sanding paper, filler, seam sealer, stonechip, taks, panel wipes etc. etc.).

My objective it to get a near mirror finish as possible. Time and effort are not an issue. My understanding is that these attributes are most important during the prep. All trim and glass will be removed. Bonnet, tailgate and doors will be removed and spayed separately/ off the car (probably horizontally to minimise chances of runs).

I plan on getting both base colours on one after the other and then applying the clear in one go over both the red and silver. The engine bay will also be red.

I'd just like the experts to confirm/ correct the process I intend to follow:

1. Grind any rust spots (mainly in the engine bay) to bare metal
2. Apply etch primer (Upol acid etch rattle can) to bare metal areas
3. Spot prime etched areas using high build primer

4. Smooth primered areas with 1200 grit.
5. Remove any flakey white paint with 800g
6. Key using scotch pads (fine) any decent surrounding white paint

7. Mask top part of car and all door openings
9. Panel wipe all unmasked areas
10. Tak cloth all unmasked areas

11. Spray 1st layer of RED base coat
12. Wait 10-15min for 1st layer of base to flash off
13. Spray 2nd layer of RED base coat
14. Wait 10-15min for 2nd layer of base to flash off
15. Flat with 1200g or 1500g

16. Remove masking tape and paper covering top parts of car
17. Mask bottom part of car which has been painted red
18. Panel wipe all unmasked areas (top part of car)
19. Tak cloth all unmasked areas

10. Spray 1st layer of SILVER base coat
21. Wait 10-15min for 1st layer of base to flash off
22. Spray 2nd layer of SILVER base coat
23. Wait 10-15min for 2nd layer of base to flash off
24. Flat with 1200g or 1500g?

25. Remove all masking (except door apertures)
26. Panel wipe all silver and red painted areas
27. Tak cloth all silver and red painted areas

28. Spray 1st layer of LAQURE coat
29. Wait 10-15min for 1st layer of laqure to flash off
30. Spray 2nd layer of LAQURE coat
31. Wait 10-15min for 2nd layer of base to flash off
32. Flat with 1500g or 2000g?
33. Spray 3rd layer of LAQURE coat
34. Flat with 2000g or g3 compond?

Q1. I am particulary unsure of the timings in between coats and the grades of wet and dry to use at each stage.

Q2. How much base red, silver and lacqure (all mixed, so total volume) of each will I require for the number of coats in the above process?

Q3. Will I get a better finish by flatting in between coats?

Q4. Finally. I'm a bit confused about the spray gun for the base and clear coats. I know I should get the best I can afford. I understand that I need a HVLP gun and a 1.4mm nozzel should be OK for my base and clear coats. My budget is about £100- £140.

Was considering a DeVilbiss GTI HD :
eBay DeVilbiss Gti HD

There seems to be very little on the GTI HD. Is it even HVLP and will it be suitable?

The other option is the standard DeVilbiss GTI (the Pro is out of my budget):
eBay Devilbiss GTi gun

Again is the 1.4mm set up goint to be OK? Not sure of the pressures and cmf to run the guns either  

Well thanks for reading this post and any help and advise you offer will be appreciated.

Cheers,
D

Where do you intend to do this and what personal protection  :redfaced:  are you using ?

Cero said

Where do you intend to do this and what personal protection  :redfaced:  are you using ?

I will use a Gerson 9000E Series Respirator Face Mask. Will have a fully body suit with gloves.will be spraying in a marquee which I've put up in the back garden.

im in same boat so il watch this one too

I've updated the process following some advise:

1. Grind any rust spots (mainly in the engine bay) to bare metal
2. Apply etch primer (Upol acid etch rattle can) to bare metal areas
3. Spot prime etched areas using high build primer

4. Smooth primered areas with 800 grit.
5. Remove any flakey white paint with 800g
6. Key using scotch pads (fine) any decent surrounding white paint

7. Mask top part of car and all door openings
9. Panel wipe all unmasked areas
10. Tak cloth all unmasked areas

11. Spray 1st layer of RED base coat
12. Wait 10-15min for 1st layer of base to flash off
13. Spray 2nd layer of RED base coat
14. Wait 10-15min for 2nd layer of base to flash off
15. No need to flat, step removed.
16. Remove 3M Blue masking tape and paper covering top parts of car
17. Mask bottom part of car which has been painted red
18. Panel wipe all unmasked areas (top part of car)
19. Tak cloth all unmasked areas

10. Spray 1st layer of SILVER base coat
21. Wait 10-15min for 1st layer of base to flash off
22. Spray 2nd layer of SILVER base coat
23. Wait 10-15min for 2nd layer of base to flash off
24. No need to flat, step removed.
25. Remove all masking (except door apertures)
26. Should not panel wipe the fresh base coats. Step removed
27. Tak cloth all silver and red painted areas

28. Spray 1st layer of LAQURE coat
29. Wait 10-15min for 1st layer of laqure to flash off
30. Spray 2nd layer of LAQURE coat
31. Wait for 2nd layer of laqure to fully cure

32. Flat with 1500g or 2000g?
33. Pannel wipe and use tak rags

34. Spray 3rd layer of LAQURE coat
35. Wait 10-15min for 3rd layer of laqure to flash off
36. Spray 4th layer of LAQURE coat
37. Wait for 4th layer of laqure to fully cure
38. Flat with 2000g or g3 compond?

Why are you laquering the red? You dont need to laquer red, unless you really want to…. as repairs will be harder at a later date if you laquer.

Is it mars red? And are you using 2pack paint? If so flat it around about 24hrs after, dont leave it any longer as it will be too hard,

if its cellulose, dont flat it for about a week, or you will fuck it.

Just put 2-3 coats of each paint on if you are using 2pack, 3-4 for celly,

I wouldnt use celly laquer, its crap and will go orange/yellow in the sun.

Make youre the filtration for the air fed respirator uses coalescing filters, and the compressor feeding it is WELL outside the tent you have put up, else you will have created an excellent gas chamber in your mask to kill yourself.

As far as laquering the red goes, are you hiding the join behind the trim line? if not then a thin (but smooth) layer of laquer between the two can help the blending.

Personally, because you aren't sure what they oversprayed the white with I would spray a light isolater coat of primer over the whole car to assure you wont get any reaction. especially seeing as it's a metallic you're whacking over the top.  or of course you could test it by doing a quick patch over one area you know they painted to be sure it wont react.

Jon.

i dont know if what anything im going to say will be right (lol) but this is what i would do;

if i were you id do both colours on separate days. each colour is going to take much longer to really dry than 15 mins, i know some people like to leave it 24 hrs just between coats, and 3 coats of colour at the least.

ive found that the more you can afford the better the gun… pretty much seems to go like that. research ive done (when looking into gettin my spraygun) i found that kits or guns known as 'cheap' guns range at about £80ish. but ive only heard good things about Devilbiss if its a good enough quality gun you can use primer, base coat etc using just the one gun for all types

i personally work through 3-4 diff grades of wet & dry sandpaper - but im a perfectionist which i do annoy myself with sometimes lol.

the longer you can take or cope waiting (you sound eager to start - who wouldnt!) you should get a more pleasing finish you want to take care of each step as your spending cash on spraying your whole car…… i know i would just be gutted if it didnt come out how i wanted it after getting prepared!

but good luck and post pics up when you start, i look forward to seeing your progress

For some reason, I didn't get notified of your replies. Sorry for the delay in response  :?

smillsey
Lacquring red so I have even total tickness of paint over both the red and silver even though (as Crowson_punk has guessed) the transition from red to silver will be behind the side trim. However the side trim doesn't go all the way to the edges of the car (for example to the tip of the front wings). Oh, I also want good protection and want it to be shiney  8)

Original post mentions paint will be 2 pack ("I am in the process of getting all the materials (2k primers, 2k base, 2k laquer…")
Thanks for the 24hr before attempting to flat tip- I wan't sure how long to wait.

Will be applying 2 base coats and 4 clear coats.

I will now be using an air fed mask, class 3, 200 times oel…. yeah I didn't know what all that meant either until I Googled it. Basically I won't kill myself  :mrgreen:  Oh and compressor will be about 18m away.

@Crowson_pink
Good point about the isolator- handn't considered it. However, I now plan on rubbing most of it down to the original (decent) paint and then apply plenty of panel wipe.

barnsey
Yes, I think I will spray both colours on separate days. Mainly because I'll have to wait till th red is dry before I can mask it off.

I've just bought a second hand Devilbiss GTi for nearly £100, hopefully it will be OK. I will use it for clear and base as it has a 1.4mm tip. I have a cheap £20 gun (1.8mm) for applying primer.

I've ordered 500, 800, 1200 and 2500 grit paper. I can't imagine anyone being more of a perfectionist/ @nal about this than me. I'm trying to stop myself from doing a full blown project plan!

I've waited long enough- the car has been off the road for over a year! I've done as much research as I can. I've a complete novice and it would be unrealistic of me to expect it to be perfect. However, I'll be gutted if it isn't  

Thanks to all for your input. Keep 'em coming.
Build thread will be done at some point.

I'm not sure what to make of this thread…

There seems to be a massive amount of planning to this paint job, but the one thing lacking is experience!

If you want a perfect job then find a painter dude, otherwise I think your heading for trouble.

Prep work can easily be done with guidance, however the rest of the job needs a booth and some experience to get right.

I think you need to do some investigation to find out why the car has been painted, personally, I'd stop buying painting products and get a decent orbital sander to prep the shell properly. You may find out the reason for the respray.

I don't want a perfect finish to my car, as it won't stay that way, even with the best care you'll mark it eventually. So far I've rattle caned a couple of issues with my car (due to lack of funds), and the finish is acceptable on one wing, however I got reaction from a bad repair on the other.

The cab is currently off the road after an unexpected restoration being required to the drivers rear arch (inner). During this process I've found filler I didn't know was there, covering rust that I didn't expect. As with your car, mine has been painted at some point in the past, although my paintwork isn't flaked. Having had to bare metal under the arch I have totally stripped the rest of the inner arch back to bare metal to see what else was lurking under the stone chip, nothing major but there was evidence of corrosion.

End of the day mate, all I'm saying is think about what your goals are and if it's worth getting it wrong and then having to pay a pro to do the job again. Time spent on prep is seldom wasted.

One last thing, if you've spent 8 years doing the car make sure you get the result you want, even if that means paying someone to paint it, there are very few people who can do Everything themselves!

DAG4R said

For some reason, I didn't get notified of your replies. Sorry for the delay in response  :?

smillsey
Lacquring red so I have even total tickness of paint over both the red and silver even though (as Crowson_punk has guessed) the transition from red to silver will be behind the side trim. However the side trim doesn't go all the way to the edges of the car (for example to the tip of the front wings). Oh, I also want good protection and want it to be shiney  8)

Original post mentions paint will be 2 pack ("I am in the process of getting all the materials (2k primers, 2k base, 2k laquer…")
Thanks for the 24hr before attempting to flat tip- I wan't sure how long to wait.

Will be applying 2 base coats and 4 clear coats.

I will now be using an air fed mask, class 3, 200 times oel…. yeah I didn't know what all that meant either until I Googled it. Basically I won't kill myself  :mrgreen:  Oh and compressor will be about 18m away.

@Crowson_pink
Good point about the isolator- handn't considered it. However, I now plan on rubbing most of it down to the original (decent) paint and then apply plenty of panel wipe.

barnsey
Yes, I think I will spray both colours on separate days. Mainly because I'll have to wait till th red is dry before I can mask it off.

I've just bought a second hand Devilbiss GTi for nearly £100, hopefully it will be OK. I will use it for clear and base as it has a 1.4mm tip. I have a cheap £20 gun (1.8mm) for applying primer.

I've ordered 500, 800, 1200 and 2500 grit paper. I can't imagine anyone being more of a perfectionist/ @nal about this than me. I'm trying to stop myself from doing a full blown project plan!

I've waited long enough- the car has been off the road for over a year! I've done as much research as I can. I've a complete novice and it would be unrealistic of me to expect it to be perfect. However, I'll be gutted if it isn't  

Thanks to all for your input. Keep 'em coming.
Build thread will be done at some point.

What compressor have you got?? i ask you this because if your thinking of shooting paint whilst running a air mask you will deffo need a decent compressor.
Dont even think about having a pop with one of them little wolf air DIY jobbies because it just will not be up to the job.

Im not trying to put you off here but joining two colours like your trying to explain is pretty special even for a fully skilled painter!

you say your going to wait 24 hrs and then mask right over the top of 2k that's been left to air dry and not put in the over?? Its not gunna happen mate,your going to be left with big strips of paint thats stuck to the masking tape.


You see normally when you join  2 colours your using basecoat and then you lacquer over the top. Ive never in my life lacquered over 2K straight colour????

All the paint i shoot now is all waterbased anyway and IMHO its a piece of piss to work with. Its far more forgiving lol

Ps/ Ive just read the message posted by Chris H above. my advice is take heed of him lol he has hit the nail on the head.

If your not careful your going to end up paying TWICE for this job! believe me ive seen them all before.
Painting your car and getting a half decent DIY job is hard enough but your talking about painting two different colours on two separate days then adding a third day into the mix for lacquer??

In my opinion you screaming out for trouble!

also i dont get your idea of lacquering over the top of 2k solid which is essentially only 'coloured' lacquer?? your not going to get it any more shiny by shooting clear coat over the top of solid?? all your doing there is making the layers of wet paint on your car thicker therefore increasing your drying time that is already reduced due to the lack of an oven???

will you be using any rocket or are you going to compensate for the air temp by adjusting your hardener/thinners?

Also is the gun you bought HVLP or normal pressure?

Ok now I'm pooing myself. Firstly, Chris-h and TigerDubs thanks for taking the time give me your thoughts.

The general gist I'm getting is that the chances of me pulling this off are between slim and none  :redfaced:  Oh dear…

I'll try to respond to each point given you have taken the time to write. I only state things that I have found during research and this includes the input of other professional painters.

chris-h
Booth and experience- Yes ideally I understand a booth is optimum but as long as there is not too much moisture and the weather isn't too cold its possible. I understand the curing/drying times are increased. This can be helped by using fast hardeners etc.

Why was the car painted (so badly)- God only knows, not sure how i can determine this.

Get a decent orbital sander- I have borrowed a DA air powered one and tried it out today. My little crappy compressor wasn't up to the job so will be using a bigger one tomorrow (possible running in parallel with the smaller one).

I'll eventually mark it- Probably as it is going to be my daily driver  but its not a show car.

Filler and other gremlins under the paint- Yep, already found some filler on the offside rear door. Will be takeing the whole door back to bare metal. Where the psint is better on the other panels I'll probably just go down to primer or if its ok just key.

Goals and is it worth getting wrong- One of my goals is to learn. It sounds as if I'll be doing this the hard way! If it goes all horribly wrong I'll get it back to a decent prep state and give it to a professional. I'll take the risk.

8 years- Thats the campaign and it has already been painted its original helious blue by a professional. The Citi Golf has been off the road a year. Doing it Mars Red and Diamond Silver gets me closer to having the other great Campaigns (sort off).

TigerDubs
Compressor - Either a 8cmf + 6cmf coupled together or two 8cmf compressors and a separate 6cmf one running the mask.

Joining the two colours- I can't think how else to do it. Its been done before. Do you know how the professionals would do it?

Masking tape on paint- I'm still not sure how long I have to wait, will 24hrs be sufficient? Surely it was weather dependant. If its boiling hot outside and I leave it in direct sunlight a day may be enough. I've been advised to use 3M Blue which is low adhesive.

Lacqure over solid 2k- If this is not the way to do it thats worrying. I understand that lacqure is just the paint without the pigment. I really don't want have a blatent change in paint thinkness where the two colours "meet". How do I avoid this? I have to lacqure the silver (metallic).

Paying for the job twice is a distinct possibility. "He who dares …" I won't finish that quote.

Painting over separate days- Is this wrong?

Using rocket- sorry I don't even know what that is!

Adjusting hardener/thinners - yes, using fast/extra fast.

Gun- I wanted HVLP but I've only managed to get a Devilbiss GTi which as a 1.4mm tip and has a 1.10 trans-tech air cap (which I don't think is HVLP?)

---

I should point out that I plan on doing some test panels first- like the wings that I wont be keeping. I'll try out the masking and see if it pulls up any paint. There have also been a couple of pro painters (on here and e38) that have kindly offered advice when I inevitably get stuck.

I have found that different painters do somethings differently and there doesn't seem to be universal thinking about some of the process/ technique.

One thing I seem to have underestimated is the time this will all take.

Thanks,
Dheraj

Hi all,

2 years on (nearly to the day ) from when I first started this thread.

A lot has happened in that time (marrage for one), unfortunately not a lot to the Citi. Its basically at the same point however, the rust spots in the engine bay have been ground out to bare metal before being coated in epoxy mastic.

I am looking to restart and am getting back up to speed with all the advise and process. I'll have to take an inventory again to check what I had bought as I still have it all (somewhere).

Will be buying a random orbital sander to take back to original paint and bare metal if absolutely necessary. Specifically looking at one of these:

GMC 920595 430W Dual-Base Random Orbit Sander 150 mm ROS150CF : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Advice, encouragement or otherwise taken as it comes.

Cheers,
Dheraj

Hi mate, i second what chris touched on. You have done all of your planning with regards materials etc really good but what you cant buy is experience and skill. Spray painting a car is a art, silver is a tricky cour because of the mica in the paint and you have to make sure your gun is at a good angle to the panel or you get a biold up of said mica instead of an even coat. That said, hats off to you mate and i look forword to the end result.

With so many people saying it is near impossible for me to do it, I am not going to commit to the whole job. I'm going to have to learn to "let go".

I will do all the prep and paint the engine bay in Mars Red. If I make a pigs ear of it, I will take it to a pro.

Cheers,
D

Hi, i wouldn't say it is impossible for you to do and i like the way you are approaching the job. I would just reccomend spraying some practise panels or the like first and getting a feel for the gun, flow of paint etc, more so with the silver and laquer. Of course the car is your own and that gives you room for error, go for it is what i say.  

Only thing and not sure if it's been mentioned is that when painting metallics you should paint the panels in the position they are on the car, ie the bonnet flat, doors vertical etc.
Apparently it's to do with how the metal flakes fall and if they are not painted in the true position, then the light refraction can cause the paint to have a different tone and hue.

Good point Chortle. I seem to remember reading about painting metalic panels in the orientation they will be on the car so the flakes settle in the same way. I will keep this in mind.

How should I tackle some small holes in the A piller? I want to do it properly.


Here is my booth ;-)


Cheers,
D

I would suggest you do the prep work and maybe just tackle the undercoat. Wet flat with 800 then take to a pro to finish off the top coats. Spraying looks easy and you can pick it up quickly but the art of it is when things go pear shaped and knowing how to deal with it.

Spill.

Cheers spillage. I will do as much prep as possible then try to paint the bay and maybe the bonnet. If I mess it up, i'll take it to a pro.