81 GLi Fuel Pump Not Priming

they did change after 84
http://www.vwspares.co.uk/g1filters.php

worst case if nla a normal vw relay holder would do you, then you would have to get some latched spades and tap into the wiring round the back rather than fitting the handy plug in the front:

15 - ignition live to G/3
30 - permanent live to one of the H spades
31b - rev counter tap this to red/black coil -ve to A/
30 - earth to claw above fusebox
87 - fuel pump power to the 3 way spade

http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?219775

Excellent, cheers rubjonny. If i make it to the AGM i'll buy you a pint!

I've paid for and ordered from classic-vw the relay adapter, along with a number of other parts i'll need for the mot.
I've ordered a fuel filter and paid for a s/h genuine working pump. So hopefully i should be able to get the thing running.

Next job will be sort the non charging problem so i don't have to charge the battery every time, then its back to the bodywork!

awesome sauce

for the charging issue first check is the battery light comes on with ignition, if not check the blue wire to the alt, theres a spade near battery + to connect car side to alt loom. if it does come on but wont go out the brush pack is worth a check, take it off and buff up the 2 electrical contact points plus make sure the brushes are in good nick:

Well the light comes on now with that dodgy plug on the clocks wriggled. I understand that without this coming on, the alts not triggered to start charging?

I did change the alt, i bought some seats and the seller had an ok working one for a fiver. I removed the brush pack, and did clean up the terminals, then fitted the whole lot cleaning the connections. It didn't work at this point but neither did the clocks all the time, i'll have a better look.

aye if the bulb isnt on then the alt wont charge properly, the light triggers the alt to start charging see. it can also be triggered ifg you rev the engine but may drop out again when idling.

fingers crossed with the clocks sorted you'll be good to go

I got so close to having it running tonight i could cry! (or kick it)

So i had charged the battery, thought i'd try running the pump with a bit of wire and the fresh battery to see if the extra power helped, it didn't, it still chugged, but i turned the key anyway. It fired, went up to 2k rpm then dropped down and died.  Did this a few times until the battery was dead again (all this flat-charge-flat has killed it), i then took the cover off the relay and checked this, it indeed does not work. Thats the problem!
At this stage i looked at the silver relay which was out too, the terminals were in the same orientation, it just didn't have the small fifth terminal. So i plugged it in, turned the ignition on and the pump buzzed and the relay clicked off. Amazing! The bridging wire i used was nice and thick so i don't see why it didn't work!?

Left it a minute and tried again, it did the same thing, buzzed and clicked off. I tried starting but the battery was too flat to turn it over. I then wacked the battery on the charger for 10 mins, came back, connected it up, but now no fuel pump or relay!?!?!

So i checked the operation of the relay, power correctly to it but the relay wasn't working now. Its rated at 40A which should be plenty?

Anyway i had exactly the same relay spare in the door of the polo, different part number but 40A, same connections, and its used as a fuel pump relay on the Polo. I tried this and it also wouldn't work?

At this point i swore alot, and packed up for the night. Just messaging mark from classic-vw who says the relays are £40 now, yayyyy


I didn't realise the fuel filters here though, that should be an easy job.


Oh and with the clocks plug half off, they're working.

Sodding old cars

if it was me i would rip the crappy old fusebox and bin it, then convert to CE1 or preferably CE2

So here i am again 1 month on….

Its had a Genuine new Relay, the relay bypass kit, new spark plugs, a new air filter and a new fuel filter.

The pump relay now works, when the engine is turning over now, whereas it worked on the ignition before!?!
Anyway it will start, but not stay running, it starts then dies. I bought a better battery, and tried this, on about the 20th start attempt in a row, it ran for about 30 secs, touching the accelerator would make it die.

I kept trying, on maybe the 50th attempt it started and ran, i left it idling (which wasn't very smooth) until it reached running temp, at this point it could be revved, however movement on the peddle had to be slow, and the engine was slow to keep up, yet when it had picked up it was nice and smooth!?

Switched off warm it would start again instantly.

I went back to it this evening and tried starting it from cold, it was the same as the beginning of the above.

Now i have removed the fuel sender in the tank, but i can't see a mesh in there that will come out? There is rubbish in there though, what came out of the old fuel filter was bloomin disgusting too, looked more like mud…

What should i be trying next?

View topic: Fuel Tank cleaning *HowTo* clear that blockage - The Mk1 Golf Owners Club

if anything managed to get past the filter the rest of the system wont be great, tolerances inside are very tight so a lot of it turns to scrap if even the finest grit gets in

But before you worryb too much, go thru this guide and check all the basic kjet stuff, ignore the fancy 16v bits:
http://www.vwgolfmk2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=25972

for the ignition timing I cant remember how you do it on a 1.6, so refer to the haynes

Excellent, thanks rubjonny. Again i'm sure i couldn't see a strainer within the tank, but i'll have a look.

Since it is worse when cold. looking at that K-jet thread perhaps its a 5th injector problem? I will investigate.

And with the filter, the mud like fuel was drained from the inlet side of the filter, it appeared to be far cleaner coming from the outlet, so the filter was doing something. Although i just stood it inlet side down in a jar to drain it, thats when the brown fuel came out.

Its the horrible case of i didn't want to mess with the engine too much yet, as i want to spend the time detailing it whilst its apart, and until the bigger job of the rusty bodywork is sorted i see it pointless. But i need the thing to run so i can drive it out of its hidey hole to sort the bodywork…

fingers crossed its a simple fix, may just be a sticky pin in meterign head from old fuel or whatever

It would be nice! The pins are visible when the top rubber elbow is removed? I did check the air flap when i changed the air filter and it moved nice and smoothly.

To confirm, as i'm reading through your 16v thread, this system does not use an ECU yes? And where would the ISV be?

you need to pop the metering head off the air flap assembly to check the pin in the metering head.

no ecu or isv, you have an aav valve instead but it doesnt buzz!

So to reveal the fuel pin, the top of the metering head, i.e. the section with all the injector lines coming out of has to be removed?
The allen head bolts seem to be a funny size? None of the hex tools i had would fit, either too big or too small.
The two flat head screws there wouldn't undo either.

The air flap moves freely, i imaging this is connected to the fuel pin, the ,more the flap is open, the more fuel is allowed past the pin?
I can feel something like that move when the flap is opened, it is slow to return though, it takes a number of  seconds for the feeling of it moving when the air flap opens to come back, which suggests a slow needle (unless i'm going down the wrong track?).


To add to the not so successful evening last night, it wouldn't even fire or splutter with some life, theres a spark, so checked the fuel side. The new relay and bypass is functioning correctly, But the fuel pump wasn't running so no fuel, gave it a couple of taps to see if it frees, still dead.

One step forward five steps back? I had to give up and get a beer before i took out my frustration on it! Not impressed.

Right, so i've read up on how K-jetronic works, i'm currently looking for a guide to strip down the air/fuel control assembly, to check everything is free?

I'll then need to go back to the fuel pump, but the idea of that makes me want to cry at the moment.

you need to undo the screws, the 4x allen head bungs are to cover the adjustment screws which can fine tune the delivery volume for each injector (i.e. dont mess with those just yet )

I recall i had to crack loose a couple of the fuel injector pipes to gain access to the screws, and iirc there are 3?  persevere, it may be advisable to see if you can get to the bottom of the screws from underneath to spray some penetrating oil on, but I think they're captive threads. Its been a loooong time since I fiddled with a kjet

may be time to pull the fuel pump and check the inlet side for debris, some have a wee mesh filter in there. plus check the outlet pipe on the tank. be sure to have a container ready as the tank will drain once pump is off, have a suitable bung to block the pipe after you have let a bit drain out so you can inspect the fuel for rubbish as it comes out the tank.  save what you drain, its perfect for cleaning stuff!  if the fuel comes out clean use it to clean out the metering head and pin once you remove it, best thing to use for cleaning these bits. obviously dont use it if its dirty or gritty though it'll only make things worse!

http://www.vwgolfmk2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=25972

http://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/index.php?page=cedi&type=misc&id=27

So there is light at the end of the tunnel.Last Wednesday, whilst trying to undo those meter head screws, after a quick test it became apparent the fuel pump wasn't working, again. The relay and wiring was all fine.

Friday after work i pushed it out, jacked the back end up and removed the fuel pump, the little strainer was solid with rusty rubbish, cleaned this out, tested the pump on a spare battery, it chugged for a bit then buzzed into life squerting petrol up the garden. Reffitted. the car started after a few attempts and ran, much the same, but it was running. Turned it off, dropped it on the floor, went to start it, and the fuel pump wouldn't work again!

Saturday morning, back in the air, i had bought a S/H pump from a late GTi. Bosch instead of Pierberg (didn't realise until i removed the old one, which is why i didn't fit it Friday). So i fitted this.
I removed the filter from inside the tank at the same time too, but i don't have a vacuum safe to suck the rubbish out. I'm wondering now if a magnet would get it? I'm not sure how this filter works either? The filter came out clean leaving a load of muck in the tankThe fuel neck looks newish, and the tank doesn't look in bad nick, i'm hoping this rubbish is from a previous rusty filler neck.
So the car started straight away, on the third attempt it stayed idling, once warm it sat running quite smoothly, usually the engine would be rocking on its mounts. The throttle is now responsive and not slow to pick up, it sounds quite meatyIt's running the best i've ever known it to run.

That allowed me to get it on the drive, chop and weld the last bits of rust in the front wings, and get the new front apron aligned and welded on. A successful weekend. The neighbours giving me grief about welding on our own drive though!?!

aha, good news

yeah a good tip is drop a magnet on a string in the tank then drive it about for a bit, then remove magnet and clean the rust off it and repeat till it comes out clean