1.8T 20v or 2.8 VR6

Hi guys

I have relocated to Dubai a few years ago and my mk1 golf cabriolet is just being shipped over now so i can resume renovation. I am looking to do either the 1.8T 20v or the 2.8 VR6 conversion but I am unsure which way to go, any advice would be really appreciated. I looked at the BAM engine and it seems relatively small in size compared to the VR6 and wondered what the weight comparison to overall control of the vehicle and ground clearance under the vehicle would be like with something like the VR6 installed. Also i understand the 1.8T is more tuneable than the VR6.

Is there a definative answer to front and rear disc conversion and upgrade as I have seen threads on the mk3 conversion and the polo/ibiza conversion or is there now a better option? Thanks

I have had a mk1 20VT and it was nuts….would defo have one again.

VR6 i would expect to be good too, you would need the correct front poundage suspension set up i would imagine as they are heavy.

If it was me…turbo the vr6!!

I only have the 12v VR6 available in this country, is it possible to fit a turbo on the 12v VR6, and would it be a worthwhile conversion or should I look to import a 24v or better to go with the 1.8T as they are easily available. Is the VR6 a good strong everyday engine?

The VR6 is one of, if not my favourite VW/VAG engine. I love it.

Not very tunable, unless you bolt a super/turbo charger to it then you'll get 300-500bhp.  Then it's too quick to get the power down. They are not a red light racer/sprint engine - More of an effortless drivers engine, think 5th gear, 20mph up a hill. A great sound and liner power delivery. They aren't as heavy as people think but position of the engine in the bay pus the weight distribution puts the engine waaayyy over the front axle making you need to think about your suspension set up.

The 1.8t is soulless and sound bobbar. However they can produce good power (pushing 300bp) easily enough (a BAM 225 engine).

I've had a 130,000 mile, 200bhp Corrado VR6 and the engine was bullet proof (had it for around 3 years).

I've also had a 40,000 mile Audi TT Quattro Sport with the 1.8t engine in (was around 280bhp) and it was boring and plagued with annoying running issues like a dodgy idle and boost leaks.  It was reliable, just buggy.

All being said, in a MK1 i'd go 1.8t - This engine in a MK1 would be insane. The VR6 would be too much.   

are you happy chopping and welding the mk1 chassis or spending a small fortune on a subframe conversion kit? if not, dont go for a vr6.

you either need to weld mk3 mount cups to the mk1 chassis and go custom shafts, or chop it up till a mk3 subframe fits and use mk2 wishbones and shafts (mk3 would fit too but prob be too wide) either that or there is a full conversion kit available but I forget where, but this includes shafts too iirc

on the plus side with the mk3 subframe PAS would then be cheap & easy as would 280mm brakes.

That's an awesome idea, I don't mind doing some chopping and fabrication as long as i get the engine I will be happy with period. Can you give me a list of everything i would need to get the 24v engine, turbo, a/c and PAS into the car please then i can go shopping. Ultimately i could upgrade the brakes and suspension too.

Have you looked at the vr6 conversions on here ??

a/c may be tricky, mk1 parts for this are few and far between and for rhd especially so. the mk2/3/4 setup is pretty large so take a lot of work to squeeze in.

if you go for the mk3 subframe route its a case of offer it up and chop the shell up till it goes in where you need it to, then weld up all the holes you have made with captive nuts so the subframe bolts up.

use mk2 shocks and wheel bearing carriers, 256/280mm ones will allow for a wide range of bolt on brake upgrades. as i say mk3 stuff bolts up too but its wider track which might be an issue for wheel fitment.

pas is simple use mk2/3/corrado rack & uj with the correct track rods to match the wishbones you choose, same goes for the driveshafts & roll bar.

pipes & tank mk2/3/corrado whatever you prefer, mounted close to the mk2/3/corrado location. need to make up a suitable uj boot or modify the car to accept an off the shelf boot. then modify the mk2/3 uj so it fits the mk1 column. I've seen people chop the hole in the bulkhead so a mk3 uj boot can be used

then its a case of vr6 engine brackets, v5 or vr6 box and suitable turbo conversion parts to bolt onto your chosen engine, make a downpipe and source a suitable exhaust system, then make a wiring loom for the engine management you decide to go with.

sounds simple hey

Yes I did look at VR6 conversions on here but I only found threads on 12v conversions.

So if i use the mk3 subframe I should use mk2 wishbones, track rods, shocks, rack wheel bearing carriers, drive shafts & roll bar. Is the mk2 & 3 subframe the same then?

I don't have a mk2/3 to hand to see how and where the subframe bolts in and sits. Can this be done without the VR6 engine already in?

the mk2 and mk3 subframes are similar but have differ ent engine mount cups on, you need the mk3 one for a VR6 lump as only mk3 brackets fit the engine. a mk2 subframe fits the same way to the shell though so if thats all you have you can use it to make your mk1 shell modifications.

the wishbones fit up the same also, mk3 are wider so you'll probably find your wheels may not fit under the arches, you can still go 5 stud if you wanted on narrow track.

you'll want to bolt your subframe in so that its central in the car and the wishbones are at the right height, so it will need to be in the same place regardless of if you have a vr6 block to put on it or not!  You may want to have a bare block for testing, just to see fi it will bolt up with the subframe in the correct position before you start, i.e. make sure the pulleys wont hit the chassis leg or whatever.

another advantage of going for a subframe is it adds strength to the shell by tying both legs together, you may want to make up some kind of crossbar at the front to tie the front bracket bolts in with the bumper bolts while you're there, you used to be able to buy these off the shelf but I dont think you can get them any more

So upon putting a mk3 subframe in will the 24v vr6 engine bolt in as its from a mk4 golf do you know? Not really much point in putting the 12v in dodsn't seem ethical.

yes the mk4 24v  and r32 engines drop to the mk3 subframe using vr6 mounts plus a v5 or vr6 gearbox. for the front bracket you still have to make something up as the mk1 bracket doesn't quite line up. plus as i say you may want to make up a brace to tie the front mount points on the slam panel into the bumper bolts as they are a little weak.

the vr6 exhaust manifold wont fit either engien, but tbh the vr6 downpiep probably wouldnt be a straight fit on a mk1 vr6 either

Hi Johnny, yes I saw a thread where someone cut the chassis legs from the donor car and welded them to the mk1 chassis. Is this the preferred option adding extra strength to the vehicle along with the front box section support? And so the 02m gearbox that comes with the AQP/AUE/BDE engine can be used? There are many threads on pedal box conversions and UJ conversions is it not possible to cut the mk1 steering column and weld the bottom half of the mk4 column with UJ on so that it ties in nicely?

its certainly one way to do it, you have to replicate the mk2/3 chassis leg shape anyway to get the subframe to fit so why not remove the whole leg and graft it?

02m is a whole other level of hurt since you need custom shaft(s) even when used in a mk2/3, you got to make or buy a gearbox bracket and move the support for it on the subframe. then you have to either have an electric speedo or buy yourself an expensive box of tricks to convert the electric signal to mechanical.

you'll be using a mk2/3 steering rack so you'll need to use mk2/3 UJ for the rack side, then convert it so it fits the mk1 column. its not just the spline you have to worry about (it may even be the same!) its the length you have to fiddle with so it reaches.

Johnny you are a world of information. I have available a BDE engine with ancilliaries am i right in thinking that any year BDE engine will go in my mk1?

yeah year makes no odds, the wiring looms differ slightly between the very early cars and later ones but my guide covers it either way:
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?267196