Just bought some bbs...but they don't fit :,(

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Bbs_002.jpg

I bought a set of these tonight, got home and tried them on my mk1 CL. They dont fit. the centre bore on the bbs is to small. Has anyone else put these on a mk1?

Would spacers and longer bolts make em' fit?

Help is much appreciated. Ive never bought new wheels before so I just expect all wheels to fit everything

Spigot rings mate, you need exact size… longerer ! bolts too would be good…

Might need a micrometer to get the spigot size  :dontknow:

http://www.vwgolfmk1.org.uk/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5357&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Golf-MK1-Spigot-Rings-Locating-Rings-73mm-67mm-/140408598562?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyres_Trim_Nuts_ET

 :wink: dazzle

daz the centre bore was to small m8, so i think your answer covers if there to big,

yes a 10mm spacer kit would be fine,

as bad as it sounds and dispite peoples view the centre bore can be bigger becuase the wieght is taken on the bolts and not the the locating lip that fits snuggle into the bore

since_1983 said

daz the centre bore was to small m8, so i think your answer covers if there to big,

yes a 10mm spacer kit would be fine,

as bad as it sounds and dispite peoples view the centre bore can be bigger becuase the wieght is taken on the bolts and not the the locating lip that fits snuggle into the bore

No you can't, the wheel needs to sit on the hub or spigot or lipped spacer as well as the bolts otherwise you WILL sheer the bolts. I bought some wheels off a forum user on here who put too thick spacers on and sheered three of the four bolts on one of his wheels  8O  8O He had his wife and nippers in the car and considered himself very lucky not to come a cropper.

I think the spacers with a lip are called hubcentric and you may be able to get some that will slot over your hub with a smaller bore lip for your new rims but not 100% sure.

Yes I agree, the bolts only retain the wheel onto the hub. The wheel/hub should be as one component with the wheel centre being a tight fit around the hub.

pukka a debate

no no i see your point and i don't dis belive your m8's mishap,

 i've not once had any problems and hit a kerb very badly in the snow while running this set up
 the a local alloy wheel shop  have said previuosly about the bore is really only there to aid the fitting off the wheel more easyily i.e lining up etc and takes no wieght off the car at all

backed it up with things like it be a lot tighter fit and a lot more the a few mm thick the lip

now with spacers is an area i can't comment on as no experince in this area,

but i can only think if longer studs or bolts are not used then your asking for trouble

also thinking about it if you used a 20mm spacer which was not a hubcentric kit maybe it would put extra strain on the bolts or studs but again i'd have to agree that 2-3mm lip not really gonna help much

The spacers that you can get with the correct bore size are call hubcentric. If you get these, you will still have a problem as the outer bore will be the same as the inner bore as they are made for a direct fitment.

You may be able to get a conversion hubcentric spacer which has a smaller outer bore compared to the standard golf hub inner bore?

One thing to check is that there isnt any spigot rings stuck in the centre of the wheels making them too small and these can be alloy too so hard to see.

The alloy has to be a tight fit onto the hub for two reasons. To take some load off the wheel bolts and to centralise the wheel on the hub. If the wheel isnt centralised then you will have a similar effect as the wheels been out of balance. (you will get a vibration usually between 60 and 80 mph.

If the wheel hasnt got a spigot ring in already and it is the wheel too small then i would suggest to cut your losses and save yourself some time and energy by selling thos wheels again and buy another set sorry mate.

Hope this helsp?  :wink:

thats like saying m8 the 4 wheel nuts can't be alined fullstop only the bore centres the wheel,

lets put it this way then the caliper cradle which is mounted by 2 bolts which are roughly half the size of a wheel bolt take no load until braking and has no recess for the the holder to sit against just to flat surface's

and at that point lets say your braking from 60 and hard fast stop the pressure on the caliper don't brake the bolts and will be under far more load then the cars kerb weight on the wheels

Well its not looking good. They a definatly to small on the wheel. I think these might be from a mazda? Ive had a quick look and there doesn't seem to be and hubcentric spacers that adapt centre bores. Plus I would be looking at £40-£100 to do this.

Surely people have come up against this before?

maybe 10mm spacers and longer bolts….spacers don't have a centre bore anyways so whats the difference with this?


Anyone want to buy a set of bbs that might fit a golf? ha

Is the PCD and offset right?

There's 2 choices:

- Sell the wheels and buy the correct fitment ones for VW. BBS wheels are quite popular and come in a number of fitments, so you should be able to sell/buy without too much hassle
- Get the centres machined out (note, it would need to be done with precision, ie at an engineering shop) to 57.1mm. This is assuming that the centre bore is the only issue and that the PCD and offset will fit your car

I think they centre bore is 54.1 and pretty certain they are 4x100.

wont cost much for an engineering firm to bore them out. assuming you get the tyres removed first it isn't an immensely long job.

They do sound like mazda mx5 fit, as they do have 54.1 centre bores.

Jon.

Best thing is sell the wrong fitting rims and get a set that fit correctly just to be on the safe side. I would never run rims that don't sit on the hub correctly or a hubcentric spacer. The caliper bolt comparison isn't really valid as they are designed to do a completely different job and aren't subjected to rotating at speed, potholes, loadings that occur when turning etc etc etc etc

i know what your saying but i'm trying to explan the best way i can, put simply the locating lip does nothing more then locate the correct wheel

the brake caliper might not have the bangs off curbs etc etc but the force the bolts have put on them threw heavy braking not only has the cars curb wieght but say it pulls 2g under braking the cars wieght is no longer 1ton for arguement sake but pushed threw the 2ton mark and the caliper is held on by 2 bolts not 4, which are almost half the size off 1 wheel nut

from reading around hubcentric kits are designed for pushing the wheel out past the 15mm mark in which a alloy hub is bolted to the the car for safety then the wheel bolted to that, and anything under 10mm is ment to be safe with the standard wheel nuts you can buy longer studs or bolts if you wish too,

the trouble from reading about is when people buy these cheap nasty kits which people seem to think are hubcentric kits there are nothing more than a thicker spacer and longer wheel nuts

these kits are safe for show use only where the car just sits on them and gets rolled around and not road use motors but people falsely sell these kits without mentioning there true use


bit like the old cherry bombs not for road use(to loud)  except in this case its not becuase its a legal to look wide its becuase there weak and for show use only

but the end off the day if you belive the little 3-4mm lip is stopping your wheel shearing off fine i'm not gonna make you change your mind because safety is inportant to me and theres things i'd not do but others will,

and for me i think thats all i can say as long as i made it clear and not confused you in what i wrote

since_1983 said

i know what your saying but i'm trying to explan the best way i can, put simply the locating lip does nothing more then locate the correct wheel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . but the end off the day if you belive the little 3-4mm lip is stopping your wheel shearing off fine i'm not gonna make you change your mind because safety is inportant to me and theres things i'd not do but others will,

and for me i think thats all i can say as long as i made it clear and not confused you in what i wrote

No not confused mate  :wink: It is there to locate the wheel and share the load along with the wheel's bolts. The lip's closer 8-10mm than 3-4mm as I put 3mm spacers on mine this year to clear some Hockenheims from the caliper and there was plenty of lip left for the wheel to sit on. As I said earlier I think he should flog the alloys and get some that fit correctly onto the hub  :mrgreen:

Can't beat a bit of late night debate  :wink:

the hub is designed to be load bearing on the golf.  you'll find cars with wheel studs/nuts have load bearing lugs/studs and that most cars with wheel bolts have a load bearing hub.

Although normally it wont cause a problem and i have run without spigots before, I wouldn't recommend it as vw designed the bolts to be strong enough to hold the wheel onto the car laterally, with the hub taking the weight of the car.

Spacers are safe assuming the wheel still mounts to the hub flange. usually this is about 10mm. Any more and it will need hubcentric spacers which give you a hub flange  to mount to.

Since, I understand your point of view, but if your "not for road use" cherry bomb dropped off you didn't dig a disk into the road and scrape/slide into a hedge/wall etc…

Calipers are different. the forces are transferred in one direction. allthough the bolts are shorter, there is weight in that one direction.  A wheel will be taking force in 3 dimensions, side loading, thrust and downforce.  The bolts and disc/drum face take the side loading and the thrust.  the downforces are taken by the hub face.  if you put a wheel bolt in a vice and hit it with a hammer it bends…

if you hit a pothole at forty without spigot rings there is an increased chance of a bolt bending if not shearing and once one goes the rest follow when the wheel hits the floor.

You wont know if a bolt is starting to stress crack until it lets go.

It's really not worth chancing in my book

Jon.

as i said theres things i would not do this one off the things i done so many times since being told by the pro's it was safe and now share there view


i can see the other side of the coin on this one but refuse to belive it lol

perhaps the best thing on this subject is to stick with crow as to be honest yes i done this been told by a local alloy shop years ago its totaly safe
and never come a crop from doing so

so in the intrest of safety its not a good idea to run over sized bores use spigot rings

i think i should of gone with that to start with becuase i got away with it and like crow has, its wrong to influance others to do so

safety 1st

This is ace!

Has anyone ever suffer a vibration when you have fitted wheels without spigot rings or incorrect size inner bores in the wheel?

I work for a motorsport business that has been trading sice 1964. Iv worked for them for 10 years with alot of experience before that and i would never advise a customer to fit wheels that dont locate correctly and tightly on the hub. I have seen cars with bad vibrations due to this and also studs and bolt sheered off due to this over a long period of time.

The amount that the hub is off centre at the smallest inner part of the wheel is then multiplied as it transfers out to the biggest outer part which is the tread on the tyre.  This is also multiplied the faster the wheel is rotated. So to put it simple, a small amount off centre on the hub can feel like you have got oval wheels when it gets to the outer diameter.

Its a bit like warped brake discs. Have you ever had a vibration from a brake disc? The allowed 'run out' which is the difference between a high and a low point on a disc face as the pad rus over it is up to 0.10mm! If you had a brake disc which is worse than this the braking from higher speeds will cause a vibration through the steering and brakes when braking.

So if you go back to a wheel being 0.20mm off centre or maybe even more and is the multiplied through the outer diamter of the wheel this is why you feel a vibration and it does put unwanted stress on the studs or bolts.

Dont listen to anyone that says it is safe to use o spigot rings or non hub-centric spacers. It is even worse with spacer because you are moving the point of load further away from the hub which puts alot more stress on the studs or bolts.

Hope this helps?  :wink:

i find if i haven't got my 3mm spacers dead square on (they're made from brake discs so don't sit tight on the hub,) then i get slight buzzing through the wheel at 60+

The 'rocco i had the 61mm centre bore wheels on did have vibration although that could be down to unbalanced wheels as i never got them done lol

Jon.

not once had any problems and nor has anyone i know had any trouble, and was adviced from autopoint alloys that is was quite safe too,

but as i said in my last post for the intrest of safety don't fit incorrect bores