supercharged 1.1

hi, please dont laff but im looking in to doing something im not sure any1 has bothered to do before and thats to put a supercharger on my 1.1.

the reason is i want a bit more power but i dont want to replace the engine at all - i want a 1.1 as its the smallest engine the golf ever had and its not as common as the GTI. also its a 5 dr model too. i know ppl will say put a G40 in it, but i may as well just buy a G40.

im not after blistering speeds as that would just be silly in a small engine and just cause lots of headaches with pressure - i only wanna run around 6-8 psi of boost, and i dont wanna spend a fortune either. i know i can add around 40bhp and maybe more with an intercooler ( another 10 bhp ) so i could be running around 100bhp which would be fine.

i will probably need a larger carb for the fuelling, maybe il need to lower the compression rate but not to sure about that. and i need to work out whether to go for a sucker or blower supercharger setup.
 i feel a sucker would be better when using carbs but the blower is an easier method to arange.

 just wondering if any1 has ever heard of anyone doing this on a small block engine. could a G-lader supercharger off the G40 work or am i looking more towards an eaton m24 / m45, maybe even a subaru rex charger. not fully sure yet - maybe there are some serious engineers out there that could point me in the right direction.

cheers

The easy way would be to simply transfer the pertinant components from a G40 to a 1.1, modifying parts which don't fit as appropriate along the way.

If you want to use a different supercharger, then make sure you size it properly and then a lot of the different bits needed will need custom fabrication. Do you have a background in engineering, or would you need to get someone else, or another firm, to help make up custom parts? If the latter, it will run into thousands, probably. If its the former, then I'd suggest a lot of it could be done with careful consideration, TIG welding an inlet manifold and maybe other parts, and possibly making some parts twice or 3 times, to make 'prototypes', trial fit, then modify/tweak as appropriate.

TIG welding is recommended for an inlet manifold since it allows you to work with aluminium alloy more easily, and also it doesn't cause issues with the welding wire of a MIG causing a rough finish (or even bits of wire sticking through, which might later break off and go into the charger/engine) on the internal side of components.

All good points Paul especially about TIG welding. im an engineering designer with mechanical engineering back ground - good news too is that i can TIG weld too.

 My dad also has build loads of race custom cars ( latest is a Autgrass 205 MI16 with R1 carbs ), so iv got help.

when iv decided on all the parts i need and get them sorted i was going to 3D model them at work and design all the brackets i need in the model so hopefully i wont need to many prototype pieces.

stil not to sure on using the G40 charger but it would make most sense. to run less boost i suppose i would need a larger crank pulley than on the G40 - not really sure how much boost an average the G40 runs at or how bigger the standard G40 crank pulley is or even how big the G40 charger pulley is for that matter.

im looking in to rebuilding the engine first so i know it can cope

Do it! It sounds like fun

I'm sure it could be done fairly cheaply; there are always loads of Eaton M45's kicking about… Maybe a little big for a 1.1 though.

Just don't let it get too expensive, or it will be fairly pointless.

Im sure the M45 could be used if i replace the pully it a larger size but its just knowing how big to go to reduce the boost pressure. although the small M24 would be better as its used on the Ford Fiesta 2000 - 2003 Brazil model.

still thinking about the G40 charger though as its original VAG and Wolkswagen designed too.

Brain really ticking over this.  :?

G40 = expensive and unreliable when compared to an eaton (Richair runs off to his bomb shelter )

 

Ye i think the roots type charger is a better design.
i was even looking at opcon autorotor lysholm screw types but can't seem to find many second hand ( or any for that matter )

i need a small charger that can be adapted to my 1.1 which is easy to get hold of for less than ?300. quite a task it seems.

i'l keep on searching for the answer - cheers

I'v got a new problem that needs to be addressed with my choice of charger.

i need to make sure its big enough to do the job of power gain but small enough so that it does not use more of the engines output power to run it otherwise il end up with less power than i started with.

so far my selection is between the eaton M24 and the opcon autorotor CR1

any1 ever had any dealings with either of these. not even sure if i can get a new one without even thinking of second hand in the UK.

il keep on hunting and let you know what i find  :dontknow:

found out a bit more information.

there are two small vehicle chargers in the japanese used parts market which are designed for cars around 1litre.

subaru vivio - ( aisin made ) AMR300 ( 300cc air displacement / min )
nisssan march - ( aisin made ) AMR500 ( 500cc air displacement / min )

you can get these for around ?150 but they are rare in this country. still looking at importers of Jap parts who might be able to source 1 for me.

iv seen some forums from Oz Vw beetle fans using these instead of the judson's which are super rare and expensive these days.

next problem is i believe these draw upto 10Kw for the engine to run it and im not sure how much it replaces just yet. may take more than it replaces.

I'l keep you posted if i find out anymore info.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this thread progress. There's something appealing and slightly quirky about souping up a 1.1 8)

Rich

cheers rich - i agree and looking at other web sites for info and not finding a great deal other than ppl's guess work i think im going to have to do some deep reading into supercharger physics to see if its at all possible.

I'l keep you all posted.

I'm sure it's possible - it'd be an expensive and compliated way of achieving 100bhp (ish) but good fun and judging by what I found on t'internet, probably unique as well.

The simplest way might be to bolt a G40 head to the 1.1 block, if it fits (not sure). This would at least give you the right sort of camshaft profile and airflow characteristics for a supercharged engine, and may lower the compression ratio too (I'm guessing at that bit).

It'd also allow you to run injection, which I would reckon to be preferable to a carb.

Good luck with it anyway!

Rich

Hi mate, it has been done before….by ME! only with a turbocharger :mrgreen:

I had the same idea about 2 years ago, just wanted to make something completely different. Funnily enough this is the first thing I've ever posted up on the forum about it!

I needed to do a project for the final year of my HNC mech eng (Im an Engineer too :wink: ) so while the other students went off and made machine gaurds and tool racks I went to my boss and told him I wanted to shove a turbo on my 1.1 mk1 Golf 8O

I made absolutely everything apart from the charger its self, and it even ran too! Its still in an unfinished state at the moment, I absolutely worked my arse off on it for 9 months but as soon as my course finished I lost steam.

I'll get all the pics together one day and post them up in the projects section when I get a few hours spare. I've got other car related issues on my plate at the mo

Dont be put off by anyone! I had like a hundred people telling me I was a nutter, that it would never work, that it was pointless, and people who just plain didnt understand. And guess what? when it fired up in my garage with the turbo screaming like a banshee followed by a big whoooosh from the dump valve… they were all proven wrong

All the best with it!

Greg

greg thats awesome fella. turbo's are cool and you probably end up with more power output too as your not using engine power to run the charger.

my only real questions to you are-

As a turbo is a blow through setup, how much max boost are you running it at? and at mid to high levels have you seen any carb problems with over pressurizing to the float? that is if you still running the carb.

also what did you do to get the fuelling right without seeing the effects of detonation from increased compression, high inlet temperatures, lean fuel/air mixture, incorrect advanced ignition timing?

these are the two things im really trying to find out about before i choose the type and model of charger im going to use and what im going to do about fuelling - looking at either running a bigger carb, R1 carbs or bosch mono-jet single point injection throttle body with stand along ecu
( expensive though )

I'd be really interested to know your thoughts and techniques on these issues.

cheers

First of all this has only really been running in my garage, and once up my street (it went like s**t off a stick) as I hadnt at the time, and still havnt now infact, finished the downpipe, so all the exhaust was coming raw from the charger into the the engine bay. Needless to say it made an awful racket!

I still need to finish this off but machine avaliability at work over the last few months has been difficult

As for your question it was only running at 4-5 psi at the time, as i didnt want to over stress the engine straight away, my plan was run higher boost pressure once the engine had become 'climatised' to it  thats the plan anyway, it might just go bang! Im running a weber carb setup and on the run it seemed fine, I'll have to alter the mixture once its running properly.

There was no detonation atall, suprisingly enough the 1.1 runs on a 8:1 compression ratio anyway. Inlet temp dont have a clue, I was running an intercooler that I made myself which seemed to play its part. Ignition timing again is something ill fiddle wirth once it up and running properly :wink:

The only other carb I'd go for (and I actually have one incase the weber packs in) is the Solex of a R5 GT turbo, but with the relitively low boost levels im running I think the weber will hold up fine.

Like I said its still an unfinished project so a lot of the answers I dont have myself yet. Im sure once Iv got it up and running driving properly Ill have a million and 1 bits to tweak. thats when Id get my temp and pressure sensors in there to get a clearer idea of whats going on, set the fuel and timing up properly. I may even have to look at an anti perc fan if I have fuel issues..

Hope this helps!

Greg

thats great greg cheers - iv got the 1.1 formel E whih is 9.5:1 CR so a lil worried its abit high.

are you using a weber with the 1.1 jets or the larger 1.3?

i work in design for an engine cooling company and im looking at fitting a water cooled heat exchanger system for the inlet aircooling and fitting an oil cooler to help with detonation as i can get them made to my own spec.


id really love to see yours running on youtube or pics on here. i think it took a really big gamble to jump straight in and do it so fair play. im still firmly set on a super charger over the turbo but thats more because i didnt think i could run a blow through set up and was thinking more towards suck through so i dont get carb pressure issues. hopefully your right and you weber will be fine.

keep me posted on your progress.
keep up the good work.

Just to update this thread with my progress - iv decided not to guess at this one and to seek help of professional texts and iv brought a supercharged engine physics book with calculation for a sound installation set-up. this way i have a better way of gauging whether the project should work or not without putting any really money up first -

also im currently in the process of an engine re-build and this weekend saw the removal of auxilary parts and cyinder head.

As ever i'l keep you all posted with progress