Seat belt idea , will it work?

Hi,
  I was searching the scrapyard for ways to replace the lap belts in my cabby. I know this has been discussed before but I wanted advice to see if anyone has tried this method before. I was looking to use a set of Peugeot 306 cab rear belts (£60 +vat).  I heard someone on another thread had used pug cab belts before.

I have included a crude mock up of the plan below.

1. Mount the reels to the beam in the boot of the car.There are already holes in the top to bolt to, but would have to drill another hole to get access to tighten nut on the other side. More likely to would get mountings welded on, or a encapsulated nut welded on.

 This is my main question. has anyone done this method before, it must be strong enough to mount from.  

2. Feed the belt between the parcel shelf over the back of the seats. As the beam is not the full width of the car (due to wheel arches), the belts would come over the seat backs nearer the centre of the seats. I could add belt guides to the seat back but not sure if this would effect the belt operation?

3. Fix the lap belt and the other bit the belt goes into on the original mounting points.



It is so frustrating not being able to take the kids out in the car. But i don't want some botch job as their safety is the priority.

Ta

3 point belt needs 3 secure and strong mountings to the body. If the reel is mounted low down the shoulder belt needs a securely mounted buckle at approx shoulder height. In your plan, you'd need to mount this securely, as high as possible, near the top corner of the backrest. Your idea of simply flowing the belt over the backrest is not safe, in a serious collision it would cut through the backrest, extending the length of the belt and lowering the shoulder support point. (Eventually the restrained passenger would have a second collision of their own, with the now extended belt). It might meet some sharp part in the backrest once it has started cutting through, and slice off.

Right. Thanks, safety first when it comes to the kids.

I have seen a few people with race harnesses secured behind the seats. From your explanation I assume this is not safe either. I don't think a race harness exists that only has two floor mounts.

Not sure where to go next, there really is not a lot of 3rd point tethering options when the roof is down.

I am sure whoever can crack an MOT standard solution to this problem, would make some money and new friends.

 

Advice welcome.

Thanks

I got this when prowler put it up so cheers H.
I can see that the belts bolt through the shelf supports but I believe that the inertia reel stays where it is, there is then something that goes onto the lap belt that joins it up with shoulder part.
Could the belt bits from a tin top be swapped over into the rear casings and reel?
I have never  seen what is inside and would be wary of tampering but looking at it the set should work..


http://www.vwgolfmk1.info/rsb/Rsb.pdf

Sheepheed said

I have seen a few people with race harnesses secured behind the seats. From your explanation I assume this is not safe either. I don't think a race harness exists that only has two floor mounts.

If they secure low down, ie using the rear seat belt mounts, then yes they have similar issues. If they're secured higher up, eg to a roll cage at approx or very slightly below shoulder height, then its safe. There's lots of issues with race safety harnesses being MoT acceptable, mainly due to British Standard or E markings on the belt and buckles etc, which is no doubt due to them not meeting some of the many requirements seat belts have. One of these is it must be possible to put it on one-handed. It might be its just this, or it might be others - but that's another topic for another day!

Rear Lap Belts and Children | VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum

this may help thanks caddypete

Thanks for all the advice, it really seems that this one will run and run. No compromise on safety so will keep an eye out for the usa speck rear mounts turning up somewhere.

I am sure this thread will get moved to "interiors" forum soon, so please anyone got any other advice please chip in.

Ta

Ian

I have been reading up on this a fair bit, searching back through old posts and on other sites.

Might be worth looking at a late model Scirroco apparently they have the seat belt mechanism on the shelf behind the seats.  Would like to see if this system could be adapted to the Cabby.

I think a day spent looking around a scrap yard might also help find other models that we could adapt.

On another thread someone is offering to fabricate items from scratch if enough people contacted him he might take up the challenge and copy the US Spec factory mountings for fitting 3 point belts. As shown in the link above.

I posted the question on a VW Camper forum and was recommended these guys

http://www.seatbeltservice.co.uk/index.htm

The motorhome job below was £300 fitted.

They do a lot of camper and classic car belt conversions. The pictures below are interesting and show how they have tackled the issue other cars.

The reels are low and the anchors on the arches. So it is possible that my idea for the reels and an anchor on the point shown on the PDF previously posted could work.

These types of belt are on pretty much every car in the scrappers and were £15 a side.





The motorhome has actually gone over the seat backs but the frames on the seats look substantial.

The PDF relates to child seats, not adult seat belts - and is old info!!! The motorhome seat belt installation uses the seat as part of the structure, which is designed to be strong enough. It will come with specific recommendations on where it can be installed - ie, the bolts which go through the floor must go through a cross member. I've installed a similar system in a motorhome (and have the instructions).

The other pics in the coupe/cabriolets look approx like how I'd want the installation. The proviso is, the upper mounting point is capable of taking the forces involved, or is strengthened to cope.

Sorry to bang on about this but I guessed I would let you know the latest.

I contacted www.seatbeltservice.co.uk to see if they could do this, and how much? They have done the 3 point cabby conversion before (images below).

The cost is £158 each side, £316 in total, that is fitted free anywhere inside the M25. I would have to travel to London from Leeds to get it done but could be worth it.




Following the comments above about seatbelts over seatbacks, I have asked for more details before considering the conversion. Also need to understand the certification of the work as I want to ensure it is fully safe and MOT compliant. I have asked for more details on the mounting system so will update post if I get anymore details to share.

Anyone had this done, or would consider getting it done?

What's the free fitting within the M25 part? Again though these are mounted over the rear seats, so like you have stated is this still an issue.
The original US spec have support towers that take the strain of the belts.
Would be interstibg to see wht and where everything is fitted.

They won't give me any more details on mountings as I expect they don't want to give all the secrets away. They do say that the reels are mounted behind the seats as there are strong mounting points there. They also ISO assure the work for European safety standards.

The M25 piece is that as they are london based, they would travel to your house and fit for free inside the M25. Other locations in UK would cost more to fit (it was £190 to travel to Leeds to fit.

£316+ VAT and £190 to fit the cost is prohibitive.

My next plan is to look for some seats from another vehicle that have integral belts and fit them. My interior could do with re trim so would do the donor back seats at the same time.

Anyone know of an interior with integral belts that would fit?

Fit 5 point belts in the rears

I am actually working on a design now for this dilemma I am a Coventry design student (product) but Cov is very car orientated enviroment I am actually seeking advice/guidence from a car engineer who designs seat and seatbelt set ups! Its going well but i have a month left on my degree so time is very tight but hopefully over the summer all my time will be devoted to this seat belt design (good for portfolio and my car/ passengers) So it is high on my to do list..................long story sort I hope to safety check it with a mk1 cabrio shell I have in my garage then sell a kit. My lecturer works for jag ect so with his help this is all feisable, but time is my only issue! Stuff like this CANNOT be rushed!

Sheepheed said

They won't give me any more details on mountings as I expect they don't want to give all the secrets away. They do say that the reels are mounted behind the seats as there are strong mounting points there. They also ISO assure the work for European safety standards.

The M25 piece is that as they are london based, they would travel to your house and fit for free inside the M25. Other locations in UK would cost more to fit (it was £190 to travel to Leeds to fit.

£316+ VAT and £190 to fit the cost is prohibitive.

My next plan is to look for some seats from another vehicle that have integral belts and fit them. My interior could do with re trim so would do the donor back seats at the same time.

Anyone know of an interior with integral belts that would fit?

Bit daft of them! If its a truly wonderful idea and their's alone, they should patent it. If its a rubbish idea (ie the mounting position isn't secure) don't copy it. If its someone else's idea, find them instead.

I can't think of any cars with integral seat belts in rear seats, except minibuses, buses and motorhomes - like the seat above. Maybe the middle seat of some newer cars?? Even if you did find one, then the mounting of the seat will be critical and you'll probably lose the fold capability. There's a few cars with front seats with integral belts, ie Range Rover classic.