Golf Mk1 OC Members hold back the price of Mk1s. Discuss...

Over my first year and a bit of Mk1 ownership I've noticed a bit of a trend every time someone starts a post either asking how much they should be selling their Mk1 on for or how much they should be paying for a Mk1 they've been to see that's up for sale elsewhere.

For a start there's the inevitable 'not another how much is it worth thread!!' then the helpful pointers to the ?Golf Price Guide?. At some point somebody is likely to voice the realistic, but fairly unhelpful, fact that a car is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

Whilst that last statement is always going to be true I believe that it is the case that one of the aims of the club/members should be to encourage the increase in price of the Mk1 Golf whereas at the moment we are more likely to be having a negative affect.

Having the club is a great part of keeping the cars alive and as many on the road as possible, especially when it seems that cars are frequently are being bought, stripped and sold on as parts via the dreaded Ebay for profit. However, there is often a surge of incredulous posts when a car is listed for sale with an ambitious asking price and this is not something that is going to help anyone involved with Mk1s. When I was looking for a Mk1 one of the first things I did was to type Mk1 Golf into Google. Someone has done a nice job with getting the club site to the top of the listings and I was able to do plenty of research before taking the plunge as most prospective owners will do. If they are reading posts about over-priced examples on the Owners Club site and messages posted by members who will brag about what a great deal they were able to find then why should they not be looking for the same?

Do I just want prices to rise so that I can sell mine for ?X? times what I paid for it? And if not (the answer is ?no? for me); for what reason should we want the price of the Mk1 Golf to increase?  

If the aim of the club is to keep Mk1s on the road and sustain a loyal fan base for the car then it?s essential that a complete car is worth more than the sum of its parts in the vast majority of cases. To keep the vehicles on the road we will eventually need a new supply of parts that are seemingly on the decline at the moment. Unless the prices rise from where they are at today there will be no business case in the future for creating some panel moulds and starting to produce copy panels or any of the other parts that we?ll need.

Does the Club have an official line on how they see the role of the club changing over the next 5,10 or 15 years?  If there?s ever an answer to that post about how many Mk1s are still on the road then it?d be interesting to see how that changes over the next 12months. In an ideal world we would get to the stage where more people were resurrecting cars declared SORN than scrapping MOT failures or breaking up and selling on. I?m sure we?re nowhere near there at the moment.

Thoughts welcome.

Matt

i understand what your saying

i cant sell 1 of mine at the moment and its all because people want something for nothing and theres not many cars under a grand cos there worth that stripped (almost)

but untill more parts are being properly reproduced to vw spec it will carry on
]
cheers rob

Its true to say that enthusiasts want a bargain, and aren't really prepared to pay over the odds for a car. Probably because they understand/observe the market so much more than the casual purchaser who rarely comes across Mk1s. Having said that, everyone uses eBay now so its not like any one person is disadvantaged in seeking the cheapest deal. Also bear in mind the enthusiast will probably be okay with passing on a car and spending time finding a nice one or a good value one.

Having said all that, I don't think the club in itself can really control or affect the prices. Its set my the market, which means that its all to do with supply and demand. Some parts are desirable (in good condition), there's only say 1 or a pair on a car; and wear out; and are unavailable elsewhere. Pretty much all older cars (not just classics) are worth more in parts than complete. Its only until you get into proper "classic" prices like ?20,000 where it makes financial sense to have the car together than in bits, in economic terms.

I know this may sound daft but i feel that the ownership of a Golf mk1 is  Luxury item and not a necessity.
almost all the owners on this site the mk1 is there 2nd 3rd or even 4th car
and most during the worst of the weather live in a garage etc

if we are heading as some will have us believe into recession and businesses start to collapse and the ranks of the unemployed get bigger and the credit culture turns sour the things we consider luxury items will not be changing hands very easily and some of the golfs laid up will start to be sold then the price will drop like Frank Bruno

I dont think this club has any influence on the general price of mk1s FACT softops sell for less in winter than when the sun comes out

When interest rates are low and the economy is riding high folk will buy things they want rather than what they need and the mk1 falls into the wants category. what will happen in ten years  :dontknow:  but when you look at the beatle the price of average ones have stayed the same for ages
and campers go for daft money, no simple answer to your question.

wait till summer, when the weathers nice and show seasons in full swing the demand for play things will be higher, (provided the economy does go tits up). its the same kind of thing in all the classic play thing markets, my minis were the same.

A5OPY said

I know this may sound daft but i feel that the ownership of a Golf mk1 is  Luxury item and not a necessity.
almost all the owners on this site the mk1 is there 2nd 3rd or even 4th car
and most during the worst of the weather live in a garage etc

if we are heading as some will have us believe into recession and businesses start to collapse and the ranks of the unemployed get bigger and the credit culture turns sour the things we consider luxury items will not be changing hands very easily and some of the golfs laid up will start to be sold then the price will drop like Frank Bruno

I dont think this club has any influence on the general price of mk1s FACT softops sell for less in winter than when the sun comes out

When interest rates are low and the economy is riding high folk will buy things they want rather than what they need and the mk1 falls into the wants category. what will happen in ten years  :dontknow:  but when you look at the beatle the price of average ones have stayed the same for ages
and campers go for daft money, no simple answer to your question.

I think this coment sums up this thread!

As someone who is currently looking for a Mk1 Gti I am obviously keeping an eye on all the places they crop up for sale.
My opinion is that the current market is over inflated. The fact that there are many Mk1 Golfs out there to choose from in various states and prices, but many of them have been for sale for over 2 months now.
Admittedly, just after Xmas is not the best time to sell, but there are only 3 other reasons why these cars aren't selling.
1 - The seller is not marketting it correctly, which in todays age of t'internet it is really hard to get wrong!
2 - The prospective buyer is too far away to justify a costly trip to view.
3 - The car is just too damn expensive for what it is.

As mentioned above somewhere, the sale & demand balance is just wrong at the moment. There are lots for sale and not much demand, so in order to sell people need to be more realistic about what the car is worth.
If point 3 was more reasonable, then point 2 would be less of an issue to prospective buyers.

Someone also mentioned that 'people want something for nothing'. Not so - people are prepared to pay what something is worth to them - not what it is worth to the seller. Most modern cars are easier to buy as you know that there is not likely to be any hidden issues underneath.
However, with a MK1 Golf there is a MASSIVE unknown that will only become apparant once you have started poking around and pulling it to bits - not something that can be done while inspecting a car you don't yet own!

This is a tricky area as we all want a fair deal, but it seems the 'Mk1 Classic' thing is making some people ask silly money.

Just my opinion after watching the market for a few months.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love the prices to go up (once I've got one!   ). but the whole idea of a Mk1 is that it is an affordable, fun classic that is 'mainly' a second vehicle.

Bored in work today as well!!!   :wink:

huw169 said

 other reasons why these cars aren't selling.
1 - The seller is not marketting it correctly, which in todays age of t'internet it is really hard to get wrong!
2 - The prospective buyer is too far away to justify a costly trip to view.
3 - The car is just too damn expensive for what it is.

You forgot number 4
4 - At the moment folk are being very careful with the cash they spend there is a growing worry out there that we could be heading for stormy financial weather so people will be thinking hard and long on weather they need to spend the money on a mk1, you think if they are not selling now and the price drops it ain't going to be an investment. house prices are dropping at the moment but still they are not selling as well as they where when the prices where stupidly high if i was buying a mk1 i think id wait and see what happens in the next few weeks as i could be that if things go wrong with the economy i may decide not to buy at all and save the pennies for the mortgage, higher electricity and gas bills. (i think this is what most folk are doing watching and waiting. both sellers and buyers)
its like a stand off at the ok corral but who will blink first?

A5OPY said

huw169 said

 other reasons why these cars aren't selling.
1 - The seller is not marketting it correctly, which in todays age of t'internet it is really hard to get wrong!
2 - The prospective buyer is too far away to justify a costly trip to view.
3 - The car is just too damn expensive for what it is.

You forgot number 4
4 - At the moment folk are being very careful with the cash they spend there is a growing worry out there that we could be heading for stormy financial weather so people will be thinking hard and long on weather they need to spend the money on a mk1, you think if they are not selling now and the price drops it ain't going to be an investment. house prices are dropping at the moment but still they are not selling as well as they where when the prices where stupidly high if i was buying a mk1 i think id wait and see what happens in the next few weeks as i could be that if things go wrong with the economy i may decide not to buy at all and save the pennies for the mortgage, higher electricity and gas bills. (i think this is what most folk are doing watching and waiting. both sellers and buyers)
its like a stand off at the ok corral but who will blink first?

I think im a plank, so this doesnt comply with me haha
Ive managed to spend silly amounts on my mk1 lately, with buying another bbs split rim as spare, coilovers, and other misc bits, but i think this is the biggest problem atm, with prices of everything rising, and they said on the news last night that this financial year is going to be the toughest yet!?
Live life one day at a time, but i can see im gonna run out of money soon lol  

paul_c said

Having said all that, I don't think the club in itself can really control or affect the prices. Its set my the market, which means that its all to do with supply and demand. .

This is not strictly true, prices for our Mk1s are laid down here and lots of people take them as gospel.

Personally I feel the prices quoted in the guide for the Series 2 campaign are on the low side for Categorys E and F.  

?2750 for category E and ?4000 for F and G for ?8000

I searched and searched for a mint campaign and ended up paying ?4500 for a car that was not Condition F more like Cat E on the clubs listing. With the sympathetic restoration to the paint and running gear means its now a Category F and only worth ?4000 by the clubs guide.

I have seen some tidy but by no means original examples sell for ?5200 over the last year or so. However there have also been some bloody lovely campaigns struggle to sell.. So i can see its a double edged sword.. ;-)

In fact you're right, the price guide hasn't been updated for a long time so I'm sure its overdue an update. Also we could really do with one for cabbys. However, they would need to be properly researched, ie by someone consistently watching the market. I've mentioned this a few times before but nobody volunteered for it….

You know how we have model data from the whole production run?  well couldn't we re-design the Cars for Sale section so you could pick the year, model and extras fitted to the car you are advertising.  obviously you woulnd't be able to put all the "specials" through, but for standard cars it might be a good idea.

You could then ask people that, when the car is sold, that they go in and somehow set their advert to "sold", including an options "How much you got for it?" box.  That would then give you meaningful data about what models sell for what prices and how long they take to sell, if you see what I mean.

Good way to analyse it Steve! Don't know if possible to do with the software or not though? One for Paul C!!

PS - Welcome back by the way - what happended to you?!!

Hairyarse said

PS - Welcome back by the way - what happended to you?!!

Thanks for the welcome back

What happened eh?  Well;

Crashed the Campaign into a Pug 406/Merc van. (it's not being stripped and re-shelled into my Mk1 Driver shell)

Sold up and moved 350 miles to set up a business selling horses

Bought Mk1 Golf GTI Cabriolet for my g/f (vw_golf_nutter)

Business folded, became homeless over Xmas

Got flat in Kent a short walk from the sea

…and to bring the story bang up to date, I'm in the process of selling ym Jeep Cherokee to buy a Mk1 GTI as an everyday driver (anyone fancy a 4x4 *wink*)

So, what did I miss? lol

Without wanting to sound like a parrot it has to be said that generally, the market will control price.

Unfortunately a rise in price may not see the numbers of golfsd on the road stop falling.

Look at split screen vans (and a lot of the other aircooled vehicles) the prices just keep going up and good examples can cost in excess of ?10,000. People are still breaking them.

Whilst I do want to see more mk1's on the road I understand that there will be less and less each year for various reasons. They are and will continue to be broken, fact.

I console myself with the fact that the mk1 golf has a large enthusiast owner's base and therefore are less likely to be just scrapped. A lot of 80's motors, especially smaller hatchbacks, are disappearing from our roads due to the fact that they are getting over 20 years old and you can get newer cars for less and less nowadays.

Some models from the 80's are almost gone, literally just a handful left on the road and some have even disappeared.

All I can do to keep the mk1 alive is to keep taxing, testing and driving mine as long as I can. :pray:

C'est la vie I'm afraid. :cry:

Steve Matthews wrote:
Crashed the Campaign into a Pug 406/Merc va……..

Welcome back Steve, not been up to much then

R.e Golf Mk1 OC Members hold back the price of Mk1s. Discuss…

The owners club may influence pricing on the site and amongst members, but I fail to see how it has complete control over UK mk1 prices. In fact just check out some of the mk1 prices being asked on Ebay or Piston Heads (i.e ?3500 for a mk1 GTI heading towards 170000 miles on the clock) or classic dealers (one wanting ?2500 for a GX a year ago). Surely the main benefit of higher prices is to those trying to make a quick buck out of a barn find e.t.c which is not a lot benefit to the enthusiast, we all remember the 3.5k 'minter' mk1 for sale not long ago with the postal MOT and 'air con' in the boot

If the club does have any influence over prices it is mainly for the good and only because, through members etc, it educates potential buyers as to the pitfalls of mk1 buying and rip off merchants. Ultimately, as with any classic, a mk1 is only worth what someones willing and able (depending on the economy) to pay for it.

Cheers

if prices went up dramatically, average-lower quality mk1s would become harder to sell as fewer people would be able to find the funds to purchase, repair and run 1 so surely more would be scrapped!?

 Quite simply any object someone wasts or desires has a price, some people see cars as a necessary evil and dont care as long as it has 4 (or 3 :wink: ) wheels and goes from A-B without problem, its just a lump of metal to some people, enthusiasts on the other hand pay what they can afford or what they see the car is worth in THEIR eyes, if the car they desire`s owner wont budge on price or prices themselves out by being greedy or trying to recoup work hours or the price of modifications then they are fooling themselves, and fortunately at the moment theres plenty of others to choose from so you need to be wise in selling as well as buying!!

The other problem with certain marques is that they do hold good residual values, fortunately or unfortunately :wink:  for us enthusiasts is VW probably has one of the strongest and largest enthusiast groups of all car brands in the UK so that does mean that prices always hover around certain figures as people always make comparison to the "last one they saw for sale"  now and again a truely mint or stuningly restored car comes up and sells for way above average price and so everyone and their uncle rolls a rusty haggered mk1 out the garage and ebays it!!! if people fight over them and get in a bidding war an artificial "price" sometime results

I gave 2k for my sportline in November 2006, i would have given more but the guy who was selling it was more of a ford man and didnt add the "exclusive dub tax" to the price, we were both happy with the deal at the end of the day he bought himself a mk1 escort and i got a nifty 90`s late spec cab for sensible money 8)

Nobody in the club can determine or control the price of a mk1 golf, if its what someone wants and has the money in my experience they will pay what they see fit, not what a seller wants or expects, people like to think there car is worth X amount but it really does come down to whos buying and how bad you want to sell it in my opinion!!!

Interesting reading….

I agree that with any old car it?s only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Just look at some of the prices cars sell at auction for, high and low, it depends on who is in the room on the day.

I am half way through a restoration on a Beetle at the moment and I am hemorrhaging money, trust me for choosing a 67 one year only car! Even though the car had a MOT and was solid and complete, labor is the biggest cost. The car will probably be with less than I spend but then I'm not planning on selling and it won?t depreciate.

If you can do allot of work yourself you will save money. I do think that an honest non modified car should be worth more than a restored modified one. These cars are becoming more collectable and good ones are getting harder to find.

I bought a 1 owner low mileage GTI Cab which I was going to give to my wife for Valentines. I have spent allot of money on it so far with new roof, refurbed the wheels, new tyres, brakes, service etc etc.

Now should this genuine low mileage car be worth more of less than a 100k+ basket case after a years worth of welding and restoration?

I have seen Golf Cabs for sale from ?500 - ?5000 who knows what it?s actually worth, would be nice to know for insurance purposes and when the bank manager wants my overdraft repaid!!

Topoftherange said

:Nobody in the club can determine or control the price of a mk1 golf, if its what someone wants and has the money in my experience they will pay what they see fit

If this is the case then should the clubs website even have a price guide section?

Personally if its not up to date i dont think it should be on the site.