Main beam warning lamp
Posted
#1589283
(In Topic #215860)
Settling In
Wire up a replacement.
Hello All.
My 1992 Cabrio failed it’s MOT because the warning lamp in the instrument cluster does not light up when main beam is on.
I have followed guides here to remove the cluster, clean the contacts and replace the lamp itself with an LED. I put it all back together, but still no joy.
My solution to get through the MOT is to rewrite an lamp on the dash that is out of use. At some time in the past a towing kit has been removed, so the trailer repeat indicator is spare.
where should I tap into the main beam wire in order to light my new lamp?
Thanks
My 1992 Cabrio failed it’s MOT because the warning lamp in the instrument cluster does not light up when main beam is on.
I have followed guides here to remove the cluster, clean the contacts and replace the lamp itself with an LED. I put it all back together, but still no joy.
My solution to get through the MOT is to rewrite an lamp on the dash that is out of use. At some time in the past a towing kit has been removed, so the trailer repeat indicator is spare.
where should I tap into the main beam wire in order to light my new lamp?
Thanks
Posted
Local Hero
did you check to see that there was power to the beam and a ground?
When you are talking a main beam are yo talking the "high inner beam" that operates the inner 2 lamps, and do the two inner lamps light?
Because there are 4 fuses for the lamps, 2 for the outers 8 inch, and 2 for the inner high?
There is no inside light for the outer lights, but there are
a inside blue lamp for the inner.
When you flask the stalk do they flash.
Also the led is biased so if you placed it i wrong it wouldn't work either.
Curiosity killed the kat….
need more information.
When you are talking a main beam are yo talking the "high inner beam" that operates the inner 2 lamps, and do the two inner lamps light?
Because there are 4 fuses for the lamps, 2 for the outers 8 inch, and 2 for the inner high?
There is no inside light for the outer lights, but there are
a inside blue lamp for the inner.
When you flask the stalk do they flash.
Also the led is biased so if you placed it i wrong it wouldn't work either.
Curiosity killed the kat….
need more information.
What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
Posted
Settling In
Hi Brian
The lights themselves work fine. With the engine running and the lights on, when I engage main (high) beam the inner spots come on.
There is actually a legend on the plastic by the LED holder that identifies the -ve side, so I am confident in that.
The lights themselves work fine. With the engine running and the lights on, when I engage main (high) beam the inner spots come on.
There is actually a legend on the plastic by the LED holder that identifies the -ve side, so I am confident in that.
Posted
Local Hero
At the pin for the hi-beam on the cluster which is blue white, should have 12V when the switch is turned on.
so you may need to validate that you have the voltage at the cluster, as it then would be a broken wire at the switch, or that you need to plump the connector by placing a piece of tape (electrical) under the mylar connector pads on the plastic tongue.
Also LEDS have a polarity, the side that is flat edged designates the negative leg, it is very easy to get the
led in backwards… Or that your led is flaky.
Place a ground additiion on the wire side of the connector pin 2 (brown) to the frame. See the thread:
Improving your Cluster Connections and ground. | Volkswagen Owners Club Forum.
as -ve is ground and +ve is positive and the input signal from the switch.
so you may need to validate that you have the voltage at the cluster, as it then would be a broken wire at the switch, or that you need to plump the connector by placing a piece of tape (electrical) under the mylar connector pads on the plastic tongue.
Also LEDS have a polarity, the side that is flat edged designates the negative leg, it is very easy to get the
led in backwards… Or that your led is flaky.
Place a ground additiion on the wire side of the connector pin 2 (brown) to the frame. See the thread:
Improving your Cluster Connections and ground. | Volkswagen Owners Club Forum.
as -ve is ground and +ve is positive and the input signal from the switch.
What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
Posted
Website Manager
Posted
Settling In
Thanks Ade,
The LED has a resistor built into the package to get around these thype of issues, ( or so Maplin say ).
Thanks Brian, I have read your article before, but I will take another look at it. However I may have go for the quick fix in my original post to get an MOT and get a new years day run out. Then do the detailed fix later.
The LED has a resistor built into the package to get around these thype of issues, ( or so Maplin say ).
Thanks Brian, I have read your article before, but I will take another look at it. However I may have go for the quick fix in my original post to get an MOT and get a new years day run out. Then do the detailed fix later.
Posted
Local Hero
johnprogers said
Thanks Ade,
The LED has a resistor built into the package to get around these thype of issues, ( or so Maplin say ).
Thanks Brian, I have read your article before, but I will take another look at it. However I may have go for the quick fix in my original post to get an MOT and get a new years day run out. Then do the detailed fix later.
Yes the resistor should be on the negative leg, but there is also a resistor in circuit lok at the wiring diagrams and you will see a rectangular box on the negative lead.
in the 92 diagrams it shows as a led;;;;;; circle with 2 arrows at the top, a lamp doesn't have the arrows.
I would try to locate a regular blue LED or a white one with and a blue cover.
What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
Posted
Website Manager
Main beam warning lamp
I was wondering that as my Wife’s 93 Sportline has a blue LED with the current limiting resistor already on the circuit board (it does not matter which leg of the LED the resistor is fitted).
So it may just be as simple as you now have too much resistance to allow enough current to flow to light the LED.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So it may just be as simple as you now have too much resistance to allow enough current to flow to light the LED.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posted
Settling In
OK, I get what you mean. I will source a bulb ( it was a bulb with a blue cover, but the other three lamps were LED's) and see if it works with a bulb. If it does I may have too much resistance for an LED of the type I have.
I will add a ground as Brian suggests too. Think I will wait until the weather gets above zero though. Still not thawed out from yesterday's efforts.
I will add a ground as Brian suggests too. Think I will wait until the weather gets above zero though. Still not thawed out from yesterday's efforts.
Posted
Local Hero
When I did the replacement guide I didn't knowingly use a resistor LED and the LEDs didn't and still haven't blown?
https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=how-to_2%2Freplacing-dash-leds
https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=how-to_2%2Freplacing-dash-leds
1983 Mars Red 1.8 Golf GTI
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
Posted
Local Hero
Also from the original thread I wrote, use a multimeter to check the loom going to the cluster;
"After pulling the dash apart to get the instruments out, pin 7 blue and white wire on the multiplug to the instruments (as per Haynes and Autodata books) is +12v when the main beam is on and 0v when off so it looks like all that is working OK and the fault is with the instruments"
"After pulling the dash apart to get the instruments out, pin 7 blue and white wire on the multiplug to the instruments (as per Haynes and Autodata books) is +12v when the main beam is on and 0v when off so it looks like all that is working OK and the fault is with the instruments"
1983 Mars Red 1.8 Golf GTI
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
Posted
Local Hero
Here is the original part number and a picture of the part. It is a regular LED with a blue lens. There is no resistor on the led plain jane white with lens cover.
lists as NLA in the US.
busdepot.com lists it, as well as ECS tuning.com
part number
357919062
357919062 - Google Search
lists as NLA in the US.
busdepot.com lists it, as well as ECS tuning.com
part number
357919062
357919062 - Google Search
Last edit: by Briano1234
What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
Posted
Settling In
I carried out my plan to wire up a second main beam indication, and I now have an MOT.
During investigation though I have realised the issue seems to be the voltage on the main beam circuit.
Measuring between pin 2 and 7 on the instrument connector gives me 8v. Measuring the connector on the back of the main beam lamp itself gives only 8v too.
I did setup a second ground on my cluster and measured the voltage at the instrument connector again and still got 8v.
Where to look?
During investigation though I have realised the issue seems to be the voltage on the main beam circuit.
Measuring between pin 2 and 7 on the instrument connector gives me 8v. Measuring the connector on the back of the main beam lamp itself gives only 8v too.
I did setup a second ground on my cluster and measured the voltage at the instrument connector again and still got 8v.
Where to look?
Posted
Local Hero
8v sounds about right for the original led when you flash or place the connector other wise it should be a Zero Value.
357919062
That value at the 2 pins of your connector seem to be right for a diode.
I would try to get the correct part and as a test jumper the new part between the pins, as are your values with it switched on or off…
I would believe that switched off there should be 0, on both pins, then switched on a difference of value between both pins @ 6 -10 volts as the normal 80's diode differential should be 2.5 volts to turn it on. I also believe that the 8V difference is due to the fact that there is an inbuilt resistor in the cluster, and I don't recall ever having to measure or replace that item.
357919062
That value at the 2 pins of your connector seem to be right for a diode.
I would try to get the correct part and as a test jumper the new part between the pins, as are your values with it switched on or off…
I would believe that switched off there should be 0, on both pins, then switched on a difference of value between both pins @ 6 -10 volts as the normal 80's diode differential should be 2.5 volts to turn it on. I also believe that the 8V difference is due to the fact that there is an inbuilt resistor in the cluster, and I don't recall ever having to measure or replace that item.
What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
Posted
Local Hero
I measured 12v on the loom pin 7, from the car side before it gets to the cluster. (loom unplugged from the cluster)
I think the cluster does have voltage stabilisers and poss resistors but you should be getting 12V from the loom main beam to trigger the cluster tell tale LED.
If you are only getting 8v at the headlight itself there is something wrong, most probably a duff earth or poss headlight switch. The switches are known to fail as on a MK1 most (or all?) of the lighting circuits don't have any relays which over loads the wiring and switches and resistance builds up leading to voltage drop.
With 8v do the lights actually illuminate?
I think the cluster does have voltage stabilisers and poss resistors but you should be getting 12V from the loom main beam to trigger the cluster tell tale LED.
If you are only getting 8v at the headlight itself there is something wrong, most probably a duff earth or poss headlight switch. The switches are known to fail as on a MK1 most (or all?) of the lighting circuits don't have any relays which over loads the wiring and switches and resistance builds up leading to voltage drop.
With 8v do the lights actually illuminate?
1983 Mars Red 1.8 Golf GTI
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
Posted
Local Hero
Starting at the Instrument cluster.
K1 (high beam led Blue cover) pn 357919062
Is tied to frame ground pin 2 via a resistor on the ground side of the led or the VE-
The Positive side comes from pin t14/7 [132] over to the circuit trace [132] on page 7
Dimmer switch
To [75] up to S9 to the flasher and down to the right side headlight positive. Should be @ 12-13.5 or greater if you add the relays.
So I would suspect that at your headlights you may have 8V also if not then you have a very resistive wire between the cluster connector, and the tie point at the fuse panel
a28 pin and the cluster pin t14/7
s10 L Side hi also plays in to this as it is in parallel.
It also goes over to b22 on the fuse panel and out to the flash solid stalk switch b6b
which is connected to white/black [144] Now at rest 56b is tied to the headlight switch
So with the head lights off then the power is fed from pin pin 56. flashing then is from pin 30
dimmerswitch
solid on for the his is via 56b
All of these should be close to battery, since it is
light switch sourced.
Light switch
Either left or right Hi beam supplies the power to the led.
So your issue is the Blue/white to the cluster being resistive as you have 8V
which should be higher at the connector unplugged.
I suppose you should measure the original diode with a diode tester as it should be 10ohm resistance or lessons way and infinite with the leads are reversed, if your DVOM has a diode checker you can verify that it is the diode or the wire.
I would also suggesting that you relay your headlights, as your voltage will go from 11.5V to 13.5 or 13.75V for brighter lights.
You could also run a wire from the inner hi-beam back to the cluster pin T14/7
You Could also run a 3 watt blue bulb in to the cluster with a wire running from the hi-beam inner wire as well.
K1 (high beam led Blue cover) pn 357919062
Is tied to frame ground pin 2 via a resistor on the ground side of the led or the VE-
The Positive side comes from pin t14/7 [132] over to the circuit trace [132] on page 7
Dimmer switch
To [75] up to S9 to the flasher and down to the right side headlight positive. Should be @ 12-13.5 or greater if you add the relays.
So I would suspect that at your headlights you may have 8V also if not then you have a very resistive wire between the cluster connector, and the tie point at the fuse panel
a28 pin and the cluster pin t14/7
s10 L Side hi also plays in to this as it is in parallel.
It also goes over to b22 on the fuse panel and out to the flash solid stalk switch b6b
which is connected to white/black [144] Now at rest 56b is tied to the headlight switch
So with the head lights off then the power is fed from pin pin 56. flashing then is from pin 30
dimmerswitch
solid on for the his is via 56b
All of these should be close to battery, since it is
light switch sourced.
Light switch
Either left or right Hi beam supplies the power to the led.
So your issue is the Blue/white to the cluster being resistive as you have 8V
which should be higher at the connector unplugged.
I suppose you should measure the original diode with a diode tester as it should be 10ohm resistance or lessons way and infinite with the leads are reversed, if your DVOM has a diode checker you can verify that it is the diode or the wire.
I would also suggesting that you relay your headlights, as your voltage will go from 11.5V to 13.5 or 13.75V for brighter lights.
You could also run a wire from the inner hi-beam back to the cluster pin T14/7
You Could also run a 3 watt blue bulb in to the cluster with a wire running from the hi-beam inner wire as well.
What do Divorces, Great Coffee, and Car Electrics all have in common?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
They all start with GOOD Grounds.
Where are my DIY Links?
Posted
Settling In
Hi Early-1800.
The lights do illuminate with 8v. But you reckon the switch itself could be causing my drop both at the lights and at the cluster? I will see if I can source a switch.
Brian, I have to ponder on yours a bit more until I grasp it!
Thanks both.
The lights do illuminate with 8v. But you reckon the switch itself could be causing my drop both at the lights and at the cluster? I will see if I can source a switch.
Brian, I have to ponder on yours a bit more until I grasp it!
Thanks both.
Posted
Local Hero
I'd go back to basics. Using a multimeter with +ve on the battery +ve and the -ve on the chassis, engine then gearbox are you getting 12-13v on all 3???
Are the other electrics such as wipers, starter, horn etc all working OK or is it just the lighting circuit?
Are the other electrics such as wipers, starter, horn etc all working OK or is it just the lighting circuit?
1983 Mars Red 1.8 Golf GTI
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
1987 Alpine White 1.8 Clipper Cabriolet
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are finished.
Posted
MOTY 2013
check voltage at all the points in the headlight chain. start at the ignition switch yellow/black, pin X. then headlight switch pin X, then headlight switch pin 56 white/black. You should see good battery voltage at the X pins ignition on, and at 56 with headlight switch on 2nd click.
If so, move on to the flasher switch, its the 4 pin with red/yellow, white, yellow and white/black. you should have 12v at the white/black with headlight switch on the 2nd click. Then good voltage at the yellow and white wires as you switch between dip and main beam (yellow is dipped beam, white main beam)
if voltages are all good here, check at main beam pin on the fusebox headlight loom C/16 white wire (right main beam) and also dash loom A/28 blue/white (main beam warning light) If voltage is good on both pins, its the wire to the clocks or an issue inside the cluster
If so, move on to the flasher switch, its the 4 pin with red/yellow, white, yellow and white/black. you should have 12v at the white/black with headlight switch on the 2nd click. Then good voltage at the yellow and white wires as you switch between dip and main beam (yellow is dipped beam, white main beam)
if voltages are all good here, check at main beam pin on the fusebox headlight loom C/16 white wire (right main beam) and also dash loom A/28 blue/white (main beam warning light) If voltage is good on both pins, its the wire to the clocks or an issue inside the cluster
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Posted
Settled In
johnprogers said
I carried out my plan to wire up a second main beam indication, and I now have an MOT.
During investigation though I have realised the issue seems to be the voltage on the main beam circuit.
Measuring between pin 2 and 7 on the instrument connector gives me 8v. Measuring the connector on the back of the main beam lamp itself gives only 8v too.
I did setup a second ground on my cluster and measured the voltage at the instrument connector again and still got 8v.
Where to look?
Hi. I have the same issue, no Main Beam indicator. Would you care to share details of how you wired in the alternative indicater light please. Thanks in advance, Kev.
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