Warning to those buying an old car.

Hi Chaps,

 What i'm about to say is pretty much common sense stuff really but here goes….

 As some of you may know, i bought a supposedly mint Golf GTI with FSH, albeit some which previous owners have carried out. I took it on a test drive and for a 30 odd year old car there was nothing majorly untoward, the steering was a bit vague but i put this down to an accumulation of wear on the steering components but not the rack, this had been replaced some 30k miles previously according to the FSH. At the end of the test drive i noted a few things which needed doing and coupled with the dealers word *quote* "my engineers have been all over it and it's all good" i came to the conclusion it was a good honest car for the year and worth slightly less than the asking price, obviously :-)

 The day i bought it, it broke down. Dodgy contact in the ignition switch possibly. The third time it cut out / been restarted i got 5 miles down the road before there was a clicking coming from the N/S rear. While i was driving i slowly pulled the hand brake up and the clicking got louder, damn bearings decided to start going. I replaced them the following day and was hoping that was the end of it.

 Today, around a week and a half after i bought it i took it for an MOT. The steering just didn't feel right and i thought it best to book it in for an MOT and pay the £45 to get the car checked over SIX MONTHS before it was due for its next MOT.

 I was sat in the waiting room, after the car had boiled over due to a cooling fan malfunction when i heard a tap on the window from the MOT tester. He beckoned me over my car which was up on the ramp. The ball joints at either side of the rack had (from what i could see) around 10mm of play, 10mm is a lot when there should be none. This is incredibly dangerous, especially at 70mph officer :roll:  How did i miss it? i didn't check basically, i was blinded by BS and FSH.

 The Engineers (mechanics) who worked for the dealer had either missed it or lied, the dealer had either not known or lied, the FSH was turning out to be not exactly true either.

 The annoying thing is i had a gut feeling the car wasn't right, i even bought a tow rope the night before when my mate and i went to pick it up. I've never done that before.

 I don't really know what the moral to this story is, DOH! seems to fit the bill! Anyway, on the way home i gave the car a stern talking to as this often helps and will proceed to work on a car which i paid top dollar for so it wouldn't need any work doing  


 Apologies for that, i needed to vent off!

  Rob.

I don't know about in England, but here we have customer consumer laws, where if the car dealer says something untrue, by law, they are required to fix it.

My dad bought a 4WD of a dealer here about 2 years ago, And in his first off road test (A couple days later) he discovered that the 4WD system didn't function fully and he front wheels would have no drive. He took it back to the dealer and it was fixed in later that week. Again, he went to test it and again the front wheels would not drive. He took it back to the dealer and they once more attempted to fix this. This time, when my dad found out the 4WD didn't work he had enough so he just fixed it himself. Quite easily might I add.

Dealers will always be dodgy as will private sellers. Here we have laws protecting dealer buyers but private buyers it is buyer beware.

I hope you get it all sorted. Maybe try lodge a complaint to the dealer?

Alek.

depends on the price paid and just how much BS there was to seal the deal?

but its certainly the joys of owning an old car.

With secondhand cars, I've always looked for a cheap honest car, set aside about £300 for teething issues and done the work myself. This is based on the reasoning that a much more expensive car probably has the same issues, but 'hidden' better.

Remember, there's always a genuine reason for sale of a car - and a lot of the time, that reason is because major work/expenditure is coming up!

This golf was actually for sale from a Porsche dealer with FSH and his word it had been checked out by his engineers, quite good BS it appears  

 The price was 5k but got it for £4.5k, which imo is the price of a genuine mid range mk1 golf with FSH, no major probs, immaculate interior and very very good bodywork.. £500 is what i'd set aside for the unforseen, i just wasn't prepared for a life threatening fault. Had it of cost £1500 then i'd of certainly been on my guard.

 I have no real prob with salesmen selling hooky shoes, shirts or double glazing, within reason. The thing is i can't drive these at 70mph and have them put me into the armco.

 I totally agree that a large majority of cars may have issues which the seller prays doesn't rear its ugly head until palms have been crossed with silver, especially when there's 1 or 2 months MOT left but this car had driven 274 miles since its MOT 6 months ago 8O Now there's no way a steering rack can get that worn in that time / mileage so somebody is lying. Grrrr.

Car sellers don't tell the truth!!! Even posh ones!!!

Sorry to hear it but have you tried Trading Standards, maybe you have a case depending on what they actually said, etc.

i can understand your frustration, unfortunately part of buying second hand motors :-(


Go and take out a new GT3 for test drive put it through front window of showroom or into lamp post, step out and casually say to the dealer "sorry about that, think your engineers must have missed the play in the steering rack".

:-)

I think i would be having a chat with the dealer about the situation .what it has cost to put right and that you are looking for some sort of goodwill gesture .
worth a try

after that hopefully all is ok and enjoy your purchase .

tbh i'd be p*ssed spending that kinda cash to have those sort of faults. Those ball joints must have been loose as a goose and well before the previous MOT.

What a shame! I agree with Ivor, go see the dealer, and if they dont want to help, tell them you are calling trading standards using their phones and their bill.....and after that, you will call your local paper to advertise the crappy dealership to all and sundry. I would not be sitting back and taking it though.... Grrrr! Let us know how you get on!

Mmmm GT3, hehe i like that idea! Those ball joints are shockingly bad, i can laugh at most things but this did make me feel sick. My MOT guy grabbed the tie rods and rattled them about like a small thing in a big hole, there should be no play whatsoever.

  I emailed the dealer pointing out what his "engineers" had missed, how i felt and how he had a duty of care to his customers and got a phonecall back where he kept saying in so many words that the cars condition was consistent with a vehicle of that age. I'm sorry but it's acceptable to sell a deathtrap because it's old is it!?!?! Then he emailed me saying "the car was sold without warranty as a Trade Sale/Spares or Repair". It was sold without warranty, that part is true but come on, £4500 for a spares or repair mk1 golf!

 He tried to pressurise me into either getting it to him to be repaired as a good will gesture (erm, i'm not driving it round my garden in that condition) or i can hand it back, for a full refund i imagine. I think i will get onto VOSA, re the MOT Cert and maybe trading standards to discuss my options. The BS continues. It's all i bit of an eye opener this!

keep leaning on him but at 4500 it aint no scrapper ,but i think and perhaps someone else can clarify this  you have to give him an opportunity to put it right .
If he is a porsche dealer  , he can pick up your car on a lorry
It is easier to fix the car , offer you a valet for your hassle you end up a happy camper.

He has to:

Refund
Repair
Replace with like

if the car isn't up to scratch.


Seriously….no use moaning on a forum, you need to contact Trading Standards and/or do a bit of proper research to find out your rights and how to use them properly.

If it were a private sale you'd not have a leg to stand on, but a dealer sale, is different in law.

I think I agree with Ivorthengine…

Because it is a sale from a dealer you have certain rights - refund or repair or possible replacement.

Get onto the dealer again and demand your rights or at least check out what you should be entitled too. You are lucky its not a private sale.

I think I remember that car (red gti) on a pistonheads add??  :dontknow:

Hi Paul,

 I am going through the relevant channels, i will be phoning VOSA and trading standards tomorrow afternoon, my shift pattern doesn't let me do things during normal hours. Hopefully this thread will start as a moan but finish with some helpful info for anyone else who may find themselves in this situation.

 The Dealer is 70 miles away and has offered to refund or repair, i'm very weary about letting anyone he knows near the car and will probably have to double check any work carried out anyway. Not the most straight forward of situations really.

 Cheers,
 
  Rob.

 Yes that's the one, it was on piston heads and auto trader.

Best of luck with it... let us know how you get on.

Dealers cant sell cars without warranty to private individuals.  I am no expert on consumer law, but you should have a minimum of 3 months warranty on a car sold to you by a dealer. Thats minimum.

That's what i thought, it wasn't until i'd paid for the car and taken the keys that i mentioned "3 months warrantee, isn't it" , he replied " because i'd knocked him down £500 he wouldn't give any but if i was prepared to pay the full £500 then he'd honour it. I refused because there's not much that could go wrong in 3 months which would cost that. Then i got in the car and the fuel tank was empty, he'd not even stuck a fiver in it. I was actually quite angry at this point so thought it best i went on my way if you know what i mean.

Tbh i'd grab the cash back . You can buy a fairly decent mk1 for a lot less but expect to be doing a few repairs but that's all part of owning a classic , also consider asking The AA for an inspection report on next purchase , for peace of mind and also a bit of bargaining power

See below from Google, I think a car should be fit to be driven safely. If a car was sold as in very good condition for a top price and immediatly fails an MOT on something more than a blown bulb I think the car was not fit for purpose.

Under the principle of implied warranty, products (goods or services) must be fit for the 'ordinary' use for which they are intended. But where the seller (or provider or manufacturer) knows the buyer's particular use (and the buyer relies on the seller's expertise or judgment in choosing the product) then an 'implied warranty for fitness for a particular purpose' is created. In other words, the seller warranties that the product will be fit for the buyer's specific use. For example, if a buyer buys food for immediate consumption and relies on the food seller's judgment, then there is an implied warranty that the food is fit for immediate consumption. In industrialpurchases, however, if a buyer submits detailedspecifications (or if the seller sells on 'as is' basis) the buyer may not claim to have relied on the seller's judgment.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/implied-warranty-of-fitness-for-a-particular-purpose.html#ixzz1llqm8K9H