Interesting thread on ClubGTI

If you read past all the profanity and generally childish remarks, it's clear that VW is exercising its right to clamp down on use of its name and logos. Just as well we didn't use them… Let's hope the word 'Golf' isn't going to cause a problem, or we'll have to be

'The Mk1 small, revolutionary yet contemporary german hatchback with performance pretensions owners' club' … perhaps I should reserve www.msrycghwppoc.org.uk just in case!

Thread here

Cheers,

Drew.

LOL - at your comments

On the thread - how pathetic! Perhaps Club Gti should send them an invoice for advertising and promoting their brand - bunch of ?$%^$%

I have to say it seems pretty short sighted on VW's part, especially with all the publicity for the new GTi and the heavy marketing linking it with the older versions.

Maybe VW are trying to move up market and distance themselves from the "GTi crowd" - doesn't sit square with their advertising on the golf though.

As an on and off VW owner over the last 10 years or so it does seem that they are distancing themselves from the true enthusiasts. Dealers are seemingly only interested in shifting new cars, and the parts / servicing seems now regarded as something to be hidden away behind shiny brochure racks and IKEA furniture.

I go to my local dealer when I have no choice, but I certainly don't get the impression they are interested in my business. I'm sure that would change if I looked like I was about to pony up ?20K for a new GTi. However, I am usually in there because I have realised I am missing some crucial VAG available only part half way through rebuilding something on my car, so I'm in my oily jeans and T-shirt  :wink: .

Lets face it VW make less and less from aftersales these days. new cars require virtually no maintenance, and I'm sure if they weren't legally obliged to provide spares backup they wouldn't bother.

I don't see why they don't just break the main spares distribution away from the dealers and let folks order direct. The dealers would just become customers like everyone else. My dealer no longer takes orders over the phone - you have to go in in person and pay up front before they will order, even for very small stuff.

For supporting older VW's I believe the way forward for clubs like ours is to ensure we can source or get parts remanufactured by 3rd parties.

Beginning to ramble so I'll go to bed now  :wink:

Chris

I doubt very much it is to do with VW trying to distance themselves from enthusiasts clubs. Most guys at VW appreciate the history of the marque, the older cars and their owners.

It is more likely that VW Group cannot be seen to associate themselves with websites with little regulation. It puts them at legal risk if people think the site is the responsibilty of VW and try to sue them for slander, bad workmanship, etc. Even though most site have disclaimers, etc it is still a risk.

It is a bit petty based on the fact I doubt VW has been put in this position in the past, but I understand their position.

Cheers
Rajan

Glad we don't use language like that!!!
TC

I agree Terry, if I was VW I would not want to be associated with the site for that reason alone. Does Club GTi really promote VW in a good light? I have seen little evidence in recent years.

Cheers
Rajan

I think it's a bit of both. I've had many differing experiences with VW Dealers. I parked up at one to get an emergency battery replacement and when I returned there was a crowd of salesmen, customers and technicians crowded around my car fascinated to see such an old GTI. The technicians fought over who would get to install the battery for me!

On the other hand, my local VW Dealer is rubbish. They don't even view my 2000 year Passat as a 'new' car and are always trying to get us to upgrade it. They seemed openingly disparaging about my view that a car should last 10 years without a problem, they genuinely thought I was mad. They are not interested in my Golf at all. They just say, "Probably won't have that part, it's too old." No enthusiasm at all.

VW is well within its rights to copyright protect its logos, in my opinion. I would hate to have my name used without my permission, and associated with a site that didn't follow my philosophy.

I think we've taken a good, but obviously different, step to keep swearing, poor language and blatant inuendo off this site. It does make a difference.

Cheers,

Drew.

I can understand VW not wanting to be associated with the general level of profanity on the CGTI forums, but I am still not convinced that the general direction of VW is pro enthusiast…. I am sure where it coincides with profit they are, but I am not convinced support for the enthusiast is a major priority in the grand scheme of things. That is just based on my own experience though and I would LOVE to be proved wrong on that.

I am sure there are many enthusiasts within VW itself, especially on the technical side, but sadly I don't think these are the people controlling the policy direction of VW and making the strategic decisions.

I don't think you can single out VW on the more sales focussed approach though - I think ALL major manufacturers are going the same way. After all I am willing to bet that the profit from selling new cars far outweighs the profit coming in from the parts / servicing side, which is where most enthusiasts wil come into contact with dealers.

One of the reasons I was attracted to this site and the forums is the type of people it attracts - genuine enthusiasts interested in the cars and helping each other out. As a Mod I don't think I have ever had to edit / remove a post for profanity or the like - people here seem to self regulate pretty well.

I would love VW to get involved with the Mk1 owners club and I think both sides would benefit from this. It will be interesting to see if the CGTI incident is a one off or if it is part of a more widespread clampdown on the use of VAG group trademarks as a whole.

All of the above very much imho, and in the spirit of open (profanity free) discussion  :wink:

Cheers,

Chris

I think corporately, VW only cares about the enthusiasts when it suits it. The latest GTI being a case in point. Playing heavily on the 'original', worked well with the marketing, and certainly pleased the enthusiast audience and those that fondly remembered the original car. Be in no doubt though, the ONLY objective is to sell Mk5 Golfs,  celebrating the history of the marque is very much secondary to corporate values, there is no profit in it.

Enthusiasts generally aren't 'current' model owners anyway. Most have older cars of no 'value' to VW. We go elsewhere for parts and service and only turn up at the dealer to pinch a few brochures on the new models. A few go on to purchase new cars, but not many.

As time goes on the expertise on older cars in VW dealers is disappearing too, most of the 'engineers' only know how to plug a diagnostic plug into your OBD port nowadays…

I too would like to get VW involved with us, but I have tried in the past and been met with complete indifference so far. I will keep plugging away though!

One of the reasons I was attracted to this site and the forums is the type of people it attracts - genuine enthusiasts interested in the cars and helping each other out. As a Mod I don't think I have ever had to edit / remove a post for profanity or the like - people here seem to self regulate pretty well.

Long may this continue too! I think by setting up clear guidlines to start with, we have been able to maintain our standards.

Cheers,

Drew.

Hi guys! Just read all your comments, interesting reading. I can't help but think you may be tarring all of VW with the same brush! Do we know for sure that this letter was the opinion of VW as a company or just one jobsworth who really doesn't care! I have had only good experience with VW, ok so the old parts are unavailable….Thats business unfortunately! If they were easier to source would you feel so special owning a perfect mk1? I approached VW customer services today to get some info on my car, i told the lady on the other end of the phone what I had and even she was enthusiastic! I honestly believe if this matter is dealt with maturely by Club GTI then the use of the logo's should be allowed, quite rightly in my opinion and Mr whoever he is should be taken to one side for a little chat!….Don't let em get you down..Cheers….walt!

I think as always its down to individuals at the end of the day, and VW like any other company probably has good ones and bad 'uns :wink:

Sadly though I have not been able to report many positive experiences on the dealer front in my neck of the woods and I have tried a few. Most of the time my enquiries were met with indifference at best…. maybe I was just unlucky.

I did manage to actually get through to one of the (I assume) older parts guys by accident at my local dealer, and he was really helpful and genuinely interested in my car. However he isn't the "customer facing" parts guy, and I have never been able to contact the same guy again. The customer facing parts guy has a bit of an attitude problem imho, and its clear that I am just cluttering up valuable potential car selling space whenever I go in in person  :roll:

Polite, courteous treatment of your customers costs nothing, even if you can't help them out. A good attitude goes a long way and does wonders for the corporate image. Sadly this approach seems to be the exception rather than the rule in many organisations these days…..

Chris

Wonder what VW would make of this discussion? Hmmmm.....

I hope they would read it and take it in the spirit its meant - positive criticism / suggestions.

Independent customer feedback can be invaluable to a company that genuinely wants to improve its image / perception with potential customers. I think the difficulty comes when you target market does not coincide with the people making the suggestions - I'd venture that your average Mk1 enthusiast does not fit the profile of the main customers VW are trying to attract.

After all they are in the business of selling new cars mainly (as most manufacturers are if they want to stay in business!), the rest of the organisation is probably geared to supporting that main aim. So while I am sure they like to help out other types of customer where they can, they must stay focussed on their main purpose.

My experience of VW HQ in Milton Keynes over the years has actually been quite positive. Varying queries from history on a Mk2 16v GTi to finding out about viability of an MPH speedo for an imported LHD New Beetle. My main disappointment is with the experience at the "sharp end" - i.e. the dealers, it just isn't all it could be from the perspective of a Mk1 owning, predominantly parts buying customer like me. Maybe it would be different if I looked like I was about to divvy up for a new golf, but I'm not…….

I think the club should definitely help out VW wherever possible - as Drew says you never know when it may benefit the club. I just wish the spirit of co-operation would extend to the dealers.

I think in my ideal world we would be able to get the club setup with trade type parts ordering access to the VW parts system. If this were possible we could just bypass the dealer link completely and probably do the dealers a favour by not cluttering up their valuable salesfloor space  :mrgreen:

I can dream…..

The situation is no better in other countries - over here the same stuff applies, and the parts and service departments for all Dublin-based dealers has been moved to one site in the suburbs of south Dublin, miles from the actual dealers, because they need the space to sell more new cars  :?

I'm even getting the "look down your nose" attitude when I go in to buy parts for my '93 Audi 80 16v - even more so because they never sold the 16v Audi 80 here, so they know for sure that it's a UK import…

Everyone seems to be slagging off the dealers but in reality the dealers are not employed by VW. Dealers have to suck up the asses of VW UK to have the privilige of selling such a great product as VW and if they don't comply then its bye bye dealer.
I work in a dealership and the crap we have to do and put up with from vw is unbelieveable.
They sent us a vernier guage the other week. ?350, could have got one locally for about ?50 but we have to have it and if we don't we can lose the franchise… it's not worth the hassle of being a dealer.

I guess for most of us the dealers are the main / only point of contact with VW - hence people singling them out.

Interesting to hear that VW makes it tough on the dealers too.

Still doesn't excuse the attitude I have experienced in the dealers I have used - that is something that is completely under the control of the dealership concerned. It probably stems from the whatever values the senior management at the dealership is cultivating in the workforce imho.

All I can say Kev is that I wish your dealership was local to me, sounds like I would get infintely better service than I currently get  

Has anyone ever looked into getting setup with online ETKA parts ordering capability? Seems its designed to be available to not only dealers, but independent garages too. Just wondering if it would ever be an option for the club, or whether costs / other factors would rule it out.

Cheers,

Chris

Could be a possibility worth investigating!

Cheers,

Drew.

Still doesn't excuse the attitude I have experienced in the dealers I have used - that is something that is completely under the control of the dealership concerned. It probably stems from the whatever values the senior management at the dealership is cultivating in the workforce imho.

I think your right Chris.

I'm lucky to have a really good local dealership like Kev's. I went in yesterday to get a few bits. I got chatting and they've offered to re-tumble my locks to one key and cut 2 new keys i've ordered for free. Thats service!
I think they feel sorry for owners like us, having to pay through the nose for genuine parts. They always joke about it! I'll have to ask if its because they too own older VWs! One of the guys in the workshop used to own my black car but his misses hated it and wouldnt let him keep it Poor chap.


Also how you approach employees at the counter is obviously going to make a difference on the service you get back from them. Its just like any other shop.

Cheers,

Ross

Ross said

Also how you approach employees at the counter is obviously going to make a difference on the service you get back from them. Its just like any other shop.

Cheers,

Ross

I guess thats what really annoys me - I am a very easy going guy who gives people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. I also subscribe to the adage "treat others how you would like to be treated yourself", so I always try to be as friendly as possible.

However when you have been standing in the main showroom having been purposely ignored for 20 mins, despite asking to speak to someone in the parts department, even the more saintly among us start to get a tad  peeved  :roll: .

I wouldn't mind if they were doing me a favour, but I'm been kept hanging around to then pay rip off prices for parts. Despite the fact I must be about the only person going into that dealership regularly for Mk1 parts, (one of the parts guys knows its me on the phone as soon as I start reeling off the Mk1 parts list), they still steadfastly refuse me any discount at all, despite asking nicely on several different occasions.

The dealership is very new, and used to be a main Merc dealer until the switch to VW just under a year ago. I wonder whether the dealership staff are the same and the "attitude" just carried over……

Maybe someone could talk VW into giving us a reduced sub to ETKA so the club could order parts direct cutting out the middle man? I know we would have to be careful about taking orders and payment, but perhaps only from fully paid up club members and then only after the member concerned has paid the club. Or otherwise just use it to order "group buy" one off orders for hard to source parts?

In fact rather than go off topic I'll start up a new suggestions thread for this as I think its something the club at least ought to look into.

Cheers,

Chris

I don't see why VW would be that bothered about giving us a limited license to use ETKA (or EKTA.. which is it? I can never remember :scratch: ) for the benefit of the club.

The amount of revenue from parts sold to mk1 owners must be pretty neglible by now. Perhaps we could actively help them flog their old parts by providing a brokerage service…

I might write a letter….  

Cheers,

Drew.