Ignition electrics problems Ballast Resistor

It turns out my 1982 1.5 GL cabrio has actually a 1.6 scirocco engine coded FR in it. I've had problems with the points melting and have repalced the coil. It seems the previous owner removed or didn't fit a ballast resistor to the coil. I've now bought the new coil which has been checked and is the right one for the FR engine but on it states must be used with a 0.9 ohm ballast resistor. I've bought a ballast resistor- but on it there is no mention of what ohmage it is. I'm told they are all the same? I'm trying to wire this up but the Haynes manual doesn't seem to match my car?! In the engine bay there is a cut white/violet wire that according to Haynes diagram for 1982 Golf GL (page 400) goes from the positive of the coil (or 15) to the ballast resistor and then from the other connection of the ballast resistor to the C19 connection behind the fuse box. There isn't a connection in my C19?! It appears another wire from the coil has been scotch locked into C22- there is no mention of this connection on the diagram! Anyone know how a ballast resistor should be wired up or if this second wire could casue a problem?

Hi

Two feeds to the coil 1x 12 volt supply 1x9 volt via the ballast resistor .
As you are aware a full 12 volts is supplied when cranking the ignition this then changes when the engine is running to supply 9 volts only , this prevents premature wearing of the points , coil etc etc .

So what i would do is , find out what gives 12 volt on starting and leave , find out what gives 12 volt permanatly when running and splice the resistor on to it by soldering it in line with the cable . You should now have 12 volts when cranking to the coil and appprox 9 volts via your new ballast resistor when normal running [these are of course seperate cables] . Remove the scotchlock connector and see what does not work , i will wager the last owner took the easy route and just found a 12 volt supply to run the car ? If your coil supply white/violet has been chopped as you say then why not trace it and reuse it ?

It would be well worth looking at an electronic ignition kit to replace the points when you have all the electrics sorted , the latest type fit in the confines of the dizzy cap now and will make adifference to the general running of the car .

Hope this helps ……
Cheers……..

Ballast Resistor vs. Ballast Wire:

Not sure if this applies to your car, but on my '82 1.3 Golf, there isn't a ballast resistor, but a ballast wire from the fusebox to the coil (wire made of a resistant material, to drop the current from 12v to 9v). On the 1.3, it's white & green, but it may be different colours on different engines (different rating?)

I'm told there is only resistance as all cars that need a ballast resistor require 12V to start then drop to about 7.5V to run. I've just got hold of a Mk2 1.6 Driver and has something behind the head lights that looks like a ballast resistor- Anyway nI've bought a brand new resistor just nee dto trace wires and try it now- Fire extinguisher on stand by!

karman said

a Mk2 1.6 Driver and has something behind the head lights that looks like a ballast resistor

This is a resistor to run the headlights as "dim-dips" - nothing to do with the ignition…

Type17 said

Ballast Resistor vs. Ballast Wire:

Not sure if this applies to your car, but on my '82 1.3 Golf, there isn't a ballast resistor, but a ballast wire from the fusebox to the coil (wire made of a resistant material, to drop the current from 12v to 9v). On the 1.3, it's white & green, but it may be different colours on different engines (different rating?)

On a 1.3 '83(Y) which grade wire would I need to use for the ballast resistor from the coil to the fusebox?

Is it D15 or C15, Havnes says C15 but the sticky on this forum says D15?

It looks like you should have a fairly thin (0.5mm2) lilac and white wire running from C15 to the +ve on the coil, thats the ballast resistor wire for normal running. The ballast resistor bypass runs from your starter motor via a connection, Td near the fuse box,  to the +ve on the coil, the diagram shows it as black 1.5mm2. The lead from C19 to the coil is the sense wire for the rev counter. If the lilac and white wire is incomplete or burned out you could run a 1.5mm2 lead in its place and put your new ballast resistor in that, just check you're getting about 9V when running. Ballast resistor ignition just aids starting, paticularly from cold. Hope this helps.

Ok thanks I'll try replacing the white/lilac wire as it is normal running I am having problems with.

The car fires and starts when turning on the starter, but as soon as the key is turnt to normal position the engine stops running, the last time I had the car running it was running fine, then all of a sudden stopped and the points and the condenser were both burned out.

snoopy-king - I was thinking of karmans original post when I scribbled the above, with yours its possible that you have a 12V coil, if your resistor wire is still intact you should have a 9V coil, have a look at that before you replace the resistor wire. I think I'm right in saying that if you are running a 12V coil on 9V it will overload things a bit and could explain your problems. Cheers.

Cool thanks for the advice, I'll check to see what voltage coil I have and will check the condition of the resistive wire, from the C15 terminal in the fuse box to the coil, and the green wire from the coil to the condensor.

Does the diameter of the wire determine the resistance?

I have a series 2 fusebox, could a faulty ignition relay give these symptons also?

A faulty relay may give you running problems but I don't think it would be the cause of the points and condensor burning out. I've had a look at Haynes and it looks like the 12V coil for the electronic ignition has a much lower reistance than that for the CB type. Try measuring the resistance of your coil, if its between 1.7 and 2.1 its okay, if its between 0.55 and 0.75 then I would say that's definitely the trouble. I'm no genius by any stretch when it comes to things electrical and I could be wrong on this but if it is the latter and my secondary school learned calculations are correct your points are switching about 14A thousands of times per minute. I think that would be enough to burn out the resistance wire aswell, according to Haynes its only 0.5mm.

So should I have a 12v coil?

What's does CB type mean?

CB just stands for contact breaker or points. If your ballast resistor or resistance wire is in the circuit you should have a 9V coil with a resistance across the terminals of between 1.7 and 2.1 ohms, (according to Haynes). I would take the coil off and check it, also check the voltage you've got there. Has the car been running okay?

My 1.3 is points ignition, gsf said I should have a 12V coil, so does that mean the resistive wire and ignition relay are responsible for controling the dropping/raising of the voltage.

The car was running fine after a mobile tuner came out and set the timing for me, a few weeks later I was checking it over and had it running for about half an hour +, I ran it up to temp 'til fan came on 2-3 times, then it just stopped running which was when I found the burnt out points and condensor all the other electrics seem fine just problems with the ignition side.

I got a new ignition relay and a new coil today, plus some wire and crimps to replace the old ones from the coil to fusebox and from the coil to condensor.

Q. Does the crimp/connector at the condensor end of the grren wire from the coil to the condensor need to be a specialy insulated crimp or will a standard plastic sleved crimp like the pressure switch ones be good enough?

I think an ordinary crimp on that lead would be OK, you mean the one that connects to the outside of the distributor.

Can you check the resistance across the terminals of the new coil.

My understanding of ballst resistor ignition is this. On starting the starter motor draws a high current and drops the battery voltage down to about 9V, if you have a 12V coil and non ballast resistor set up you get a weakened spark due to the reduced voltage, thats just when you need a good fat one to get the car going. With ballast resistor ignition your normal running is with a 9V coil and a resistor in the circuit to drop the voltage down from 12V to 9V. You have a resistor by-pass which puts the full battery voltage to the coil on starting, this is dropped to about 9V by the starter motor load and as you have a 9V coil you get a good spark. (From the Haynes diagram it looks like this by-pass lead runs from the starter motor to a connector behind the fuse box and from that to the coil). Once the engine stops cranking the by-pass is removed and the coil reverts back to running on 9V.

I wouldn't replace the lead from the fusebox to the coil with ordinary wire, if GSF matched the coil to your car and it is designed to have a ballast resistor you will probably overload it.

I had trouble with this with an old Mk1 Polo, I've just found the manual and in that it says the resistance wire should be 1280mm long with a resistance of 9ohms, its also the same colour. Whether yours would be the same I'm not sure.

If your resistance wire is somewhere near 1280mm and still intact and GSF matched the new coil to your car I should think it would be okay. I would be interested to know the resistance of that new coil if you can measure it. Let us know how you get on!

Dont go anywhere near the coil with the car running, you can die.. Just set the key to the ACC setting this should be fine for guaging how much voltage is going to the coil.  :wink:

It sounds top me like you've shorted the condensor out so that it isnt supressing the spark anymore, you can check this by turning the key to ACC and opening the points manualy, with a well insulated screwdriver if there is a loud crack and a BIG spark then the condensor is either faulty or short.

If you have a capacitance meter its about 250UF I think (from memory) more is good less is bad.

I cannot stress enough that running the car while testing coil voltage is very bad, you've got a potential 20KV+ there, and although its switched, its DC, not AC (think welder, not light bulbs)  :wink:

It could be that, that would explain why it appears they've both failed, but why does it try to start when cranking but cut out when the key is in the normal running position?

I put in new points and condensor and still only got firing when turning on the starter motor, and it fires first time every time, so I tried something and came up with the following conclusion:

The ballast resistive wire is at fault, I ran a wire from the + of the battery to the + of the coil and the car runs fine like that, according to haynes if running this wire makes it work then the ballast resistor is at fault.

The original lilac/white balast resistive wire has already been cut out by someone before, I can see this from inside the engine compartment so I thought I'd take a look at what's going into the fuse box…

I took half the dash pockets off to expose the fuse box and noticed another Ignition relay… Relief relay… Relay X whatever it's called or wants to be called, just hanging around with wires coming out of it in all directions they all seem to be heat welded or rusted to this relay  8O .

The ballast resistive wire that is in use and connected to the coil goes to this relay and it looks like a lot of cutting and splicing has been going on, I found a bit of wire that's the same colour as the ballast wire in use which is burnt out and melted coming from one terminals.  

On further inspection it looks as though the ballast wire was then just re-spliced into a different terminal on the relay, and some of the other terminals on the relay have wires from other terminals on the same relay spliced into them and it looks a right mess.  :twisted:

There was a rapid clicking noise which I think was coming from the relay whilst the car was running with the tempory live feed, I heard the same clicking noise when I could only fire the car on the starter the other day.

I think I'm going to re-wire the new relay I have got from GSF back into the fuse box and discard all the mess that has been spliced in.

I can get all the correct gauge wires and connectors for free and they'll be the right colours so it will be back to original  8).

That's the best way, rip it all out and start from scratch. Its possible that VW still do that resistance wire, might be worth a phone call.  Cheers.

 :dontknow: