safe fuel pump connection - S1 loom and CE2 fusebox

Hi guys - looking for a bit of help here. I have a s1 with a KR engine & fusebox on carbs, ECU, TCI and ignition wiring. The balance of the wiring is S1 from what i can tell so the rear of the and dashboard looms are all S1 ceramic fuse type connectors - problem for another day….. first things first.

I need to connect the fuel pump. i am going down the carb route so that does away with a lot of gubbins. The wiring that came with the car is butchered hence i am trying to sort what is there and what is not (and why)…. this is where i need your help.

the live to the pump is currently connected into the rear loom, it is the standard red/yellow but does not run into the D connector on the fusebox but rather ends like this….. into a slicer with a spare connector and one with a short red wire with a female spade.



attached to the same loom is the following relay…



and a s1 connector…



The other thing is that the D15 connector wire is burnt out that usually connects to the coil (15) and instead there is a spare wire in the loom which is black, 1.5mm and ends in a female spade at each end. My theory is that the black cable connects to the coil (15) and this connects to the spare connection onto the pump (1st picture). This would provide a live feed to the pump from the coil.

Would really appreciate some advice or direction if anybody has any thoughts. I do not want a permanent live to the pump for obvious safety reasons…..

Cheers.

I can tell you what the fuel pump relay needs to work if that is any help and what the pin config is for the relay socket.
The relay needs a switched ignition 12 volt and the neg from the coil ( This so the pump only running when the dizzy outputs a ground), plus a constant ground.
then you have a battery 12volt in then the output to the pump ( This is the red/ yellow).
Pin 15 switched ignition
Pin 31 ground
Pin 31b coil neg
Pin 30 battery 12volt
Pin 87 output to fuel pump via 15amp fuse.

These are the pin numbers found on the fuel pump socket in fusebox

Clear as mud?

The first pic is the wire that should be connected to pin 87 on the relay.  That red and yellow wire goes to your pump.  That is a factory connection so leave it in the plastic shroud.

as above you should havea permanant live from the fusebox to the relay. This goes to pin 30! this voltage is switched to the red/yellow wire when the relay is operated by the switched ignition or the coil negative wires….

Thanks for the responses chaps - it really is helpful. Unfortunately my black hair belies the blond roots… where do i find those numbers you have quoted:
Pin 15 switched ignition
Pin 31 ground
Pin 31b coil neg
Pin 30 battery 12volt
Pin 87 output to fuel pump via 15amp fuse.

Are they on the relay itself or the relay plate? Neither of which match up.. the relay i have is shown below



and the pins on the base of the relay read 53 - 31 - 15 - L (clockwise from the top)



sorry for the crap photo but you get the picture……  Am I looking at the wrong relay? or is this an incorrect fuel pump relay for this application and hence needs to be changed?

Em thats deffo not a fuel pump relay! I actually have a pic from my build thread for you!



That is a fuel pump relay mate! note the pin numbers

Cheers Lee - at least that puts that to bed.

Time for me to buy a relay and relay plate and get this bad boy wired up! Do you know how/where the best place would be to source these parts - and is there a list of different relay and their associated uses just so I do not make this mistake again?

Thanks again for the help mate. Its appreciated.

The original relay took a Tacho signal from the -ve side of the coil, this is a safety feature, ie if the engine stopped running then the fuel pump would also stop.
Someone has bypassed this and fitted a standard relay that just needs a positive to operate, probably from the ignition circuit (15) on the wiring diagrams. Later Golfs used a similar relay with the ECU controlling the fuel cutoff should the engine stop.

If you were in a crash and the engine stopped then the pump would continue to pump fuel - not good. You really do need to consider adding a correct fuel pump relay back in to the fuse box and put the wiring right.

Have you got a Haynes manual ? The connector letters, pin numbers and wire colours are laid out very clearly, if you need help using them, then just shout !!

Hi Ade, that makes sense - the wiring has been bodged and armed with a Haynes manual I am making sense of all of this. The existing relay did throw for a bit of a loop though. As above, I will have to make up one myself - there is a first time for everything!  

I very definitely did want a safety cut-off on the pump!!! Cheers.

its so easy to make your own.

relay pin  ————————– connection

30           ————————— Terminal 30/H on the fusebox

31           ————————— the earth spider above the fusebox

15           —————————- pin 15 on the ignition switch

87           —————————– to the red/yellow +12v to pump

31b         ——————————  to the coil pin 1


Do that and it will pump correctly when it should :-)

Oh and the relay is available from GSF £19.something I have no idea for the plate - actually I need one of these….

Sounds good Lee…. all of those connections I am happy with except for pin 15 on the ignition switch. Where about is that? Can I take that off the coil? If so, which wire would be spliced?

Off a previous post by the famous rubjonny…

the correct relay is 321 906 059G, or you can buy this one from GSF:
935VG0090 - k-jet relay - £ 23.20

do you know which would be suitable for a KR engine on carbs with KR ECU? Did you get the relay plate at the same place as the relay itself? GSF?

Thanks again mate for your help.

The relay you need is something like that, register on there website and there online shop is awesome now.

no pin 15 on the ignition switch is the connector at the back of where you put your key in.  If you follow that back to the fusebox and tap into that…. Its on the fusebox guide on here what pin it goes to at the fusebox, just take a feed off that wire

Ace mate - thank you very much.

Hope your gasket issue is sorted soon!  

Haha thanks! I have here next to me a brand spank elring 1.6 GTI head gasket! as well as other goodies from VW! as soon as I can ill be back on it trust me!

Just out of curiosity - are you using a ce2 board in your s1? if so, what are doing about all of the dash and rear loom connectors? Are you going to rewire the connectors?

No mate mine is thorough bread S1 so im using the original CE1 wiring... It is pretty easy to work with to be honest

mmm - gives me pause for thought. perhaps i should switch over to the ce1 board i have - not sure if i can run a kr engine & ecu on that board.

dilemma's dilemma's …..  

No a KR should just plug and play into a CE2 fusebox if you have a pre 90 spec KR engine loom?

Yeah i have the correct KR ignition loom for the ce2 board, however I am thinking the dashboard and rear looms are not going to plug and play into the ce2 board.....the connector shapes are different.

Ah sorry mate yea I just read the title again :-) well in that case you should switch back to the ce1 loom and then wire/splice in the engine loom to create a sort of hybrid loom.

The more I learn, I the less I know it seems….