83 GTI not starting - got fuel, spark etc

Hi all have a bit of a problem with my 83 gti  :cry:

A little history:

The car has always started fairly well, sometimes a couple of turns of the starter then fires.
The other day I had turned it off and went to start it again about 5 mins later (still warm) and it didn't fire; I kept cranking it and… nothing! The battery had always been a bit weak so it lost power after a few tries of it not starting. I then went on to try and bump start it which it has always done easily… and still nothing! Tried to jump start it, still nothing.
Since then I have taken it to my cousin that has been working on dubs for a while. It has fuel from all injectors and the 5th. It has a strong spark from all plugs. TTS is working. WUR works and has been stripped and cleaned.
The plugs do seem to be getting wet??? Is there a chance it could have flooded when I was trying to crank it and now my cousin trying to start it has flooded it even more and therefore I need to get the fuel out of the cylinders?
 
Good/matched compression in all cylinders. Injectors all have conical spray and even amounts.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks, Barnaby

take the plug out a few minutes and the fuel will evaporate, sothis to me sounds like timing. you've got fuel and spark but are they at the right time?

has the dizzy come loose at all?

Hi Mate,

yea we're going to try and get all the fuel out of the cylinders, will the fuel evaporate fairly quick then? even if there is a fair amount in there?

Woops sorry, forgot to mention, yea timing is fine too on crank and at dizzy.

Thanks for the reply.

Right,

Left the plugs out for a while today pretty sure the cylinders were dry. Then tried turning it over without the CSV plugged in, didn't start and the plugs didnt get wet.

Then tried to start it with the CSV plugged in, still didnt start and plugs were then wet. So CSV works, but is it flooding the engine, getting the plugs wet and meaning they don't ignite???

Once again, any help appreciated, really rattling my brain here  :dontknow:

how do you know the timings correct if it won't start?
at what point would the car not start? did you just wake up one morning and it decided not to play vball, or have you done anything at all between it starting and not starting?

joey said

Since then I have taken it to my cousin that has been working on dubs for a while.

But he's not fixed it?????  :dontknow:

wooders said

how do you know the timings correct if it won't start?
at what point would the car not start? did you just wake up one morning and it decided not to play vball, or have you done anything at all between it starting and not starting?

Hi, Thanks for the reply.

Well it was starting fine then drove it somewhere, turned it off and it just simply didn't start again 5 minutes later and it hasn't started since. So the timing was fine when i turned it off. Timing has been checked with marks on the crank, flywheel and mark on dizzy body.

Also just to say, the fuel pump wasn't priming it would only run while cranking the engine. So we've changed the relay and it is now priming again but still not starting. Plugs are still getting wet…

Cheers.

Hi guys,
just to help explain the situation, I've also had a quick look at the car and all the obvious and not so obvious stuff has been checked so it's either something completely obscure or it's staring us right in the face and we're looking too deep.
What's been checked:
Fuel condition, fuel lines, filler neck and cap, fuel pump, injectors including 5th injector and WUR.
The whole air system:
All induction pipes and lines, air filter, vacuum pipes etc,
Spark:
New coil, leads, distributor cap and rotor arm, plugs changed twice. Timing has been checked according to crank and head marks and checked with a timing light on turn over which isn't the best way (ie:- needs to be running) but when cross referenced with the timing marks it's bound to be pretty close!

There's a good spark, decent fuel and as far as we know..enough air.
What I cant suss out is why is the spark NOT igniting the fuel at all?! Are the plugs just completely soaked as soon as cranking has commenced??
It's a strange one and I'm certainly no expert but I've read everything I can think of on the forums and checked everything at the same time. Joey's cousin seems to know what he's talking about and even he's stumped!
We tried starting it with the TTS removed to cut out the 5th injector in case it was over fueling because of that but still nothing.
The only thing I've read about and not checked or asked about is the accumulator…would/could this cause the problem?

As a side note…the only noise thats come out of the car apart from the drone of a starter motor is an induction type backfire from the inlet manifold but this has only happened on full throttle. It's only occured a couple of times so could be due to the fuel build up from the amount of starting attempts so far. I also think this because when the fuel line was taken off to check the pump, i tried turning it over and it did it then.
SO…after that essay. HELP!?        

could well be fuel pressure or possible vacuum hoses. check all your hose making sure everything is connected and no holes/splits. how did you check fuel? at the injectors?

You've missed sometihng obvious.

What?

What?

paul_c said

You've missed sometihng obvious.

…What?

throttle opening? sensor plate opening? fuel coming out of the injectors? properly?

We could all guess, but its probably something already listed and its simply not been checked properly, or some kind of assumption made.

You've said it already - if there's a spark and fuel, why isn't it igniting properly.

There's no mystery, its just that you've overlooked something, or made an assumption etc. Anyway, I can't do any better over the internet than your cousin who's had the benefit of looking at the car with his own eyes (and I don't want pics of the car). Really needs a fresh pair of eyes. If you can get it to me, I'll look at it.

what?

Yep fuel was checked at the injectors

airflow sensor is moving freely

…what?

what? was the spray like from the injectors? if timing and sparking are correct and the sensor plate is ok and throttle moving freely, then you either have an air leak/low fuel pressure/diesel in the tank

Conical spray from all injectors with the same amount coming from each…

He's checked the air system and the fuel in there seems fine, definitely no diesel in there! must be fuel pressure because otherwise the injectors wouldn't all squirt so well would they??? Not sure if/how he has checked the pressure tho.

Well my cousin is having another look tomorrow with another set of eyes as well.

Thanks for the help.

dub_84 said

Hi guys,
As a side note…the only noise thats come out of the car apart from the drone of a starter motor is an induction type backfire from the inlet manifold but this has only happened on full throttle.

this is still making me thing the timing is out (maybe ignition is out 180 degrees), but its super hard to guess when you're not in front of the car. im also not an expert in this, but i have played with enough 8v engines to know its nearly always an assumption you've made and not checked

at this point i'd be undoing everything and starting from basics, to ensure timing is right.

charge the battery overnight before starting work again. change the plugs and leads to ensure a strong spark.

are the injectors spraying constantly or on off on off?

Matt