'83 gti will not run...

newly aquired '83 gti will not run…..it starts just about every time but will not run. Car has been sitting for over 8 years. Replaced the fuel tank and sender, the original was rusted out. Replaced the pump with used, original was locked up. Replaced the fuel dist with used, the original was locked up. Replaced the injectors with used ones cause the originals were plugged with rust. I get 75 psi at the dist and 75 psi to the control press regulator. but only about 5'ish out. Nothing to the injectors at all. Car starts but dies soon after. The engine also has the tendancy to run backwards…..after it starts and begins to die it will pop a couple times and twice now it ran backwards. Once it reved pretty high before keying off. Buddy under the hood verified cam sproket running backwards… black smoke was coming out the air tube behind the bumper.
Now were stumped….this is my first VW and it's really being a pain. Any ideas??

ok so I was looking at cis schematic...is the line coming out of the top center of the fuel dist. suppossed to have 75psi or is the line coming into the primary pressure regulator on the side supposed to. These are the two lines for the control pressure regulator. Cause according to this bosch schematic my pressures look backwards.

should be getting about 76psi at the injectors, i think. sounds like the metering head could do with maybe shimming to increase pressure. you have changed to fuel, i take it?

Update…tried yet another fuel distributor and WAR. Seems slightly better. atleast it's trying to build injector pressure now. it will start, rev to about 1500rpm then die down to around 200-600 chugging the whole time. tried wedging up the air sensor, but that ends up flooding it BAD. although the injector pressure looked alot better, around 55psi. And of course atleast two times tonight it ran backwards, shooting black smoke out from the air inlet.

When it's chugging at low rpm…the engine "pulses" strongly which fluctuates the rpm between 200 and 600. the injector press. rises with the higher rpm but falls quickly when it slows down. which leeds me to believe the air sensor is working. Not sure if the injectors are actually firing at all. also tried several other ideas like…turning the ignition distributor, unplugging the o2 sensor, lifting the air box off the bottom section, plugging the brake booster(vac leak) and re-gapping the plugs. with no noticable difference. I also added a shim to the pressure spring in the fuel distributor with no noticable difference.

At this point a carburetor conversion is looking pretty sweet…..my initial thoughts on how cool the cis was are quickly going down the crapper. What the heck is going on here?

Have you checked the firing sequence? I.e. are you plug leads on in the right order.

Just a thought?

Are you sure you unplugged the O2 sensor?

What are the fuel pressure readings - system pressure, and control pressure (cold and warm), and the temperatures you took these at.

assuming all timing and ignition is correct and it is a fuel pressure issue, you will need to adjust the co mix and idle with any changes. the backwards running thing doesn't sound like fuel pressure though.

The firing order is correct…I've double and triple checked. Also made sure the distributor was not 180 degrees off. After the last parts change out, my pressures have changed again but to no good. I used to have 75psi to the fuel distributor and warm up regulator, with about 5ish out. Now with the different fuel distributor and war I'm getting 80 psi at the fuel distributor and 5-10 psi to the war while cranking. When I turn the key off the pressure to the war shoots up to 25-35psi and slowly goes to zero. Also on the control pressure side I get five or less psi  while cranking. After I turn the key off the pressure shoots up to 25psi and slowly goes back to zero. With the other parts I remember the press holding steady after the key was off.

During all of this, there is no pressure to the injectors. With the previous parts it would fluctuate around above 35psi. If I wedge open the air sensor plate it will flood the engine. I talked with a local VW performance shop and he said the weber 2bbl carb conversions are "junk" and not recommended. He recommended fixing the cis and forgetting about the carburetor. So I guess I'll just keep on trying here….oh yeah, the temperature was about 75 (F) when I checked the pressures.

Where are you connecting your fuel pressure gauge???? Pic would help

I measured the pump pressure on the outlet of the fuel filter. War pressures right at the inlet and control pressure outlet. Injector pressures right off the fuel dist. I used a Mac tools fuel pressure tester kit I barrowed from a friend. It uses brass fittings in place of the bolts at the end of the lines. They have schrader fittings on the ends where the gauge hooks up with a quick coupler. It's a good quality pressure test kit….

I really appreciate all the tips and suggestions from you all here. Thanks!

OK it sounds like you've used a more modern EFI pressure testing kit, but the Golf is mechanical FI. You need to connect the pressure gauge between the metering head and WUR, it takes the place of the pipe with the larger of the 2 connections on the WUR.

Also you need a valve in it (after the gauge but before the WUR) so you can measure the system pressure.

You're kinda half way there with the WUR-metering head connection but I think you only managed to measure the control pressure, which varies with temperature…..

Try a search for "fuel pressure mechanical K-Jet" or something like that, see if you can find a pic of it - it will really help!

update..bought cis injection tester kit. Wired in a switch for the fuel pump to run the pump without cranking the engine. System pressure is about 78 psi. this was measured between the fuel distributor and the control pressure regulator with the valve off. With the valve open, the wires for the control pressure regulator and aux. air valve off I got about 30 psi. The temp in the shop was around 75(F). Everything seems to be good according to the mitchell manual I got from the russian web site.

I also verified ignition timing with a timing light using the marks on the crank pulley. I verified operation on the cold start valve with a test light and by checking for fuel. although I'm not sure how much fuel is supposed to be coming out. I pulled all the injectors and set them on the valve cover…with pump on and pulling up on the air sensor I have fuel coming out and they're making the high pitch noise. The one thing I did notice was when checking the cold start valve. I noticed no difference with the wires off or with the whole valve removed and hole plugged…car stills starts every time but will not run. Tried another valve I had and still no difference. does it mean anything?…I don't know.

So, the fuel is coming out as required, the fuel pressures are within spec, the ignition and valve timing are in time and the car will still not run?

- Mixture
- Compression

are the only 2 things left, which would make it not run

Unless you've done something like the igition leads arean't connected correctly…

Looking into the idle mixture…is the valve on the aav supposed to be open or closed with wires removed. Mine is closed. Also I don't have power to the aav connector with ignition switch on…this doesn't seem right. Is there a inline fuse hidden in the harness for this or is it on a fuse in the fuse block. I have a wiring diagram but can't seem to find it. Also, could the adjustment screw on the air flow sensor housing be so far out of wack that it would prevent the car from running, but not starting.

Thanks again, for all the help. For once I feel like i'm making progress here.

not sure about the power to the aav, but this shouldn't prevent the engine from running. lumpy warm up yes, but should still run. it's possible the sensor plate is out so far that the mixture screw hasn't enough range to set co properly. it sounds to me that you either have a leak, the idle screw is too far in and or you're running lean. on start up, the cold start valve will add fuel to the inlet. if you're too lean for the engine to run, the extra cold start fuel can still help it start.

I'm just amazed you haven't looked into why your engine runs backwards that would have me seriously worried

the AAV has nothing to do with the idle mixture, it simply raises the idle speed during warmup. It does this by being open while cold, then as it gradually warms up (the wires are for an internal heating element) it closes. If the wires are disconnected it will still warm up, albeit slower, and close the valve and reduce the idle speed.

Obviously if you're taking a CO reading at idle (to set the mixture), then you need to be approx at the rpm for idle, but its not a critical thing.

Removed the aav and cleaned it out. Hot wired it directly to the battery. Now I can get it to run here and there, but only if the throttle is half to fully open after it starts. Rpm's won't go over 1000. I noticed the top end of the engine and exhaust will get HOT very fast. For example… this last time I got it to run, it only ran for maybe twenty seconds at most at wide open throttle. The top end of the engine including the intake manifold was very hot to the touch. The first time I got it to run, which was still under a minute…the cat. converter was very hot. even the tail pipe was pretty warm. I removed the converter and inspected it thinking it was plugged but it looks good. Running the engine straight off the head pipe had no noticable effect.

With the heat building up soo fast in the top end, am I still looking for a mixture problem? Or is it timing?

i wouldn't worry about the aav just yet. have you done anything with the co mix or idle screw yet? how did you set the timing without the engine running?
 heat wise, it's hard to say if your cars getting too hot from the description. heads and manifolds do get scolding hot.
 what pressure did you measure at the injectors?
 though it sounds to me like you are running lean, i can't help but think that there is a timing issue going on somewhere here.

Just thought I'd give an update on my situation over here. Ended up performing a compression test and a leak down test. Number one cylinder was pretty much dead at over 80% leakage and about 60psi while cranking. Found out the piston rings were stuck onto the piston all the way around. Only the oil rings was free. looks like a result of corrosion from sitting. The cylinder is still good and all four show signs of crosshatch remaining. The project has been idle since this discovery. The car has been demoted to a winter project as I have to put a new engine in my winter beater.

I did come across an 'ol vw mechanic from back in the day….we talked a while about the car. He said the car should've ran with the bad rings, but obviously not that great. He suspects that the frequency valve is stuck or not operating. He showed me on his cherry Scirroco how it should sound and briefly explained what it does. I know for a fact my valve was not making that noise. So when I start working on the car again I'll fix the piston/rings and troubleshoot the valve. Maybe in a month or two I'll have some good news to post.

Lastly, in a bout of good luck I have aquired a rebuildable '87 Jetta GLI engine for free, plus a huge box of cis parts and two boxs of professional grade repair manuals. And yesterday I purchased a '91 Corrado G60 parts car minus engine/trans and some body panels for a mere $300.