Starting issues on VW Golf 1.6

Starting issue. My VW Golf 1.6 yr 2001 (low milage for year) has been in and out of a specialist VW garage at least six times since November 2011. The problem is and yes still is, starting up after leaving car parked for short period and after short journey. Extensive work has been carried out, but the problem remains. Garage have replaced the starting motor, the exhaust plus catalytic converter. Exhaust valves, cylinder heads, oil neck and cap, gaskets, lambraprobe, radiator, poly v belt, rear axle brushes, brake lines - the list is endless. Even replacing the number plates didn't fix it! The time before last, the garage sent the engine to a "specialist" who took the engine apart, but couldn't establish the fault. I have just got her back after another two weeks in the garage. They say their technician used her and couldn't fault her. Collected her friday, took her out yesterday for short run. Returned to car after leaving her parked up for ten minutes - she wouldn't start! Took video yesterday to show garage as I'm beginning to wonder whether they believe me! Any one out there have any ideas? PS Full service carried out, spark plugs etc changed plus oil etc - this was two months ago. Car runs perfectly once started. No loss of power and idles well when stopped at traffic lights etc.

when you say wont start, does it turn over for long periods of time then splutters into life? or does it just turn and turn ?
send me the video, itabrett@finning.co.uk

tubbett said

when you say wont start, does it turn over for long periods of time then splutters into life? or does it just turn and turn ?
send me the video, itabrett@finning.co.uk

When engine is cold it starts fine. It plays up after a journey and when it has been left parked up for a short period. Tickling the accelerator it splutters and dies. After several attempts turning the key and tickling the accelerator she starts. Once started - no problems.

This forum is for the Mk1 Golf, you might be better posting your question on something like Club GTI

your engine is suffering from fuel evaporation.
The fuel is not being held under pressure when she is turned off, the reason its only a problem when its hot is because the evaporation will only occur with a significant rise in temperature. When the temperature drops the fuel will reform into a pure liquid state, giving the lift pump something to pump (they will not pump gas, only liquid)

This condition is also exacerbated by a small leak in the fuel feed line from the tank, this can cause the fuel to lose pressure and evaporate in the fuel lines, regardless of temperature, and more often than not is small enough NOT to leak out onto the floor, the fuel evaporates quicker than it can form a puddle.

I am not overly famillar with your model of golf but the fuel system will include a check valve/accumalator and non return system and the fault will be certainly be found in the fuel delivery system.

As i mentioned previously a careful check of the lines will also need to be made, especially if they are steel, but I have had this problem with other systems that use plastic type lines.
The easier way to eliminate this is to temporarily fit a line into the tank and connect it to the lift pump, thereby bypassing the cars own system.

I would take this info and get underneath it yourself because whoever decided on all the work you have had done should be shot, or at least hang up the spanners im afraid.

if the cars a 2001 golf i would have the ecu scanned looking for fault codes,also check the live data from a cold start all the way to engine at normal temperature,ive replaced many crank sensors due to this no starting from hot,also the coolant sensor is prone to failing so these need looking at
Bert

surely though if its been in and out of a garage they would have scanned for the obvious stuff?............maybe not actually lol

"tubbett" said

surely though if its been in and out of a garage they would have scanned for the obvious stuff?…………maybe not actually lol[Apologies for not saying thankyou for your comments thus far. I have tried to attach the video demonstrating the start up faults, but it appears too large to attach. I am a lady of mature years and afraid do not have facilities to look under the vehicle as suggested, but have taken your comments on board ready to discuss with the garage. Since my last post I have taken the car for a number of journeys and left her for ten minutes or so before starting her up again. More times than not she started ok without the need for teasing her into starting. BUT…..on the last couple of start ups a copious amount of thick blue smoke has been emitted from the exhaust. Enough infact to prevent the vehicle from being driven. The fumes are such that they are getting into the cab now.
Despite requesting details of the faults that came up on the scan when at the VW dealership, they have so far been unable to tell me what they were.
I realise (NOW!) that this forum is for Mk 1 golfs only, and apologise to the chap who appeared a little upset that I ventured to post my problem here, but thank you once again for taking the trouble to assist with my problem. I have tried other vw sites, without any success.
Thank you once again. /quote]

thick blue smoke from the exhaust on a 2001 car with a cat is a sign of very rich running,either coolant sensor or m.a.p. sensor (manifold pressure sensor)
Bert

do your local garage like taking all that cash from you?i bet they do.

tubbett said

your engine is suffering from fuel evaporation.
The fuel is not being held under pressure when she is turned off, the reason its only a problem when its hot is because the evaporation will only occur with a significant rise in temperature. When the temperature drops the fuel will reform into a pure liquid state, giving the lift pump something to pump (they will not pump gas, only liquid)

This condition is also exacerbated by a small leak in the fuel feed line from the tank, this can cause the fuel to lose pressure and evaporate in the fuel lines, regardless of temperature, and more often than not is small enough NOT to leak out onto the floor, the fuel evaporates quicker than it can form a puddle.

I am not overly famillar with your model of golf but the fuel system will include a check valve/accumalator and non return system and the fault will be certainly be found in the fuel delivery system.

As i mentioned previously a careful check of the lines will also need to be made, especially if they are steel, but I have had this problem with other systems that use plastic type lines.
The easier way to eliminate this is to temporarily fit a line into the tank and connect it to the lift pump, thereby bypassing the cars own system.

I would take this info and get underneath it yourself because whoever decided on all the work you have had done should be shot, or at least hang up the spanners im afraid.

I have a similar problem with my Clipper I've changed the  2e2 carb for a webber all the rubber fuel lines filters etc
the car runs much better than it did and even starts easier.

I was thinking the tank vent was blocked but its not  would it be ok to run a temporary line from the tank to my fuel pump (mechanical)  then onto the carb by-passing the reservoir and not using the return to the tank?

only temporarily obviously!
 the return in that system (from memory so someone may call me wrong) is designed to remove any air bubbles from the system that are caused by cavitation bubbles that are caused due to the type of operation in a mechanical pump.

I think it is likely that both of your faults will be due to the failure of the metal fuel lines. It is not totally surprising that pressurising these lines is not causing a leak because fuel lines will rot from the outside-in.
difficult to explain without diagrams but trust me that unless your fuel lines are rust free! they are surely the most likely culprit and if you were in my garage that is the first thing i would have checked for.

Thanks for the info Tubbett the 2 metal pipes were from memory quite rusty prior to painting so that could be the answer

Thanks for the advice.

my pleasure dude

Ok. I've avoided the "BIG BOYS" vw dealership and asked a lad from my very local garage, clever I'm told at sussing out problems, to take a look at my Golf. He took her for a run, tried to start her after leaving her 15 mins and low and behold she wouldn't start. Whereas the vw dealership had her for two weeks recently telling me they looked at her everyday and couldn't find any problems! He brought her back and showed me the engine and pointed out to what he thought to be the culprit. He suggested it is the throttle body. I also have a VW polo and we listened to the timing that it takes to hear a click when key turned once in ignition. On the Polo it was 2-3 seconds. The Golf 11-12 seconds. Seems too much petrol getting through to the Golf engine. Advised if I can pick a cheapy part up he could change them over in about 5mins. Does this make sense to anybody out there? Have the same problem? Fixed it?
Thinking back prior to the extensive work carried out by the dealership, users of the car remember hearing this click and it was pointed out to them when taking car to them initially.
Would love to hear what you dudes think.
PS the smoke that was being emitted from the exhaust is apparently petrol burning off.

tootsielee said

Ok. I've avoided the "BIG BOYS" vw dealership and asked a lad from my very local garage, clever I'm told at sussing out problems, to take a look at my Golf. He took her for a run, tried to start her after leaving her 15 mins and low and behold she wouldn't start. Whereas the vw dealership had her for two weeks recently telling me they looked at her everyday and couldn't find any problems! He brought her back and showed me the engine and pointed out to what he thought to be the culprit. He suggested it is the throttle body. I also have a VW polo and we listened to the timing that it takes to hear a click when key turned once in ignition. On the Polo it was 2-3 seconds. The Golf 11-12 seconds. Seems too much petrol getting through to the Golf engine. Advised if I can pick a cheapy part up he could change them over in about 5mins. Does this make sense to anybody out there? Have the same problem? Fixed it?
Thinking back prior to the extensive work carried out by the dealership, users of the car remember hearing this click and it was pointed out to them when taking car to them initially.
Would love to hear what you dudes think.
PS the smoke that was being emitted from the exhaust is apparently petrol burning off.

hello tootsie, sorry for the delay but been travelling home
sounds good to me, the thing is if your man has looked and knows what he is doing his advice should be followed because he has after all looked at it.
mechanical engineering should always begin and end with a visual inspection