The quest for capacity-Audi 2.0 8V conversion how's it done?

I've got a reconditioned Audi 2.0 litre short block engine (that?s been converted for a MK1 1800 GTI). I also have a Audi 5 cylinder throttle body, warm up regulator, TSR pack A head (1600 solid lifter) and a kent gs2 cam all boxed up and gathering dust  

I would like to put these to good use but have a few questions….

1. Is converting an 1800 headed mk1 to fit a my 1600 TSR head an easy job…. what needs to be done? :dontknow:

2.i) Would a VW 8v diesel turbo manifold fit a 1600 mk1 gti head? (they look similar to the turbo technics manifold??!) :dontknow:
 
ii) If so could this be used a different turbo be bolted to it?  :dontknow:

iii)What would be good to use?.. something like a T3??? :dontknow:

iv) What else would I need for such a conversion ?..a suitable intercooler and pipe-work?

Ok so now I'm thinking turbocharged 2.0 litre 8v …….

We know we can use a spacer to lower the compression or machine the piston crowns……

Now I'm sure I've read somewhere you can change pistons over from say a g60 engine and use them with a longer throw crank from a diesel. Does anybody know what the crack is here? Surely this would increase to capacity too hmmmmm   ???.

 Streve and Mr V you guys might know …..

Kins - her's my pennis worth:

1. The 1.8 and 1.6 GTI heads are different. One has a bowl in the head the other doesn't. IMO you'd spend too much time making sure it was all ok and nothing touched to make it worhwhile the effort. you'd be better off flogging the 1.6 head and buying a 1.8 head. The cam might work but you'd need to check though;

2. My understading is that the deisal manifolds will fit the GTI head with a very minor mod as it doesn;t clear the underside ot he inlet manifold so needs a bit of grinding for clearance. They main problem is bulk head clearance. The TT manifold is quite short in depth to allow for the turbo to clear the bulkhead and also to miss the steering rack etc etc.

3. Different Turbo would need an adpator to mount it, as if I remember rightly the VAG manifold is 3 stud fitment. A T3 is normally 4 stuf fitment. Again though, due to the bigger turbo it might ctahc the bulk head etc even if the adpator was made;

T3 is a good turbo. Available form most Ford cars. Just ned to make sure that the turbo is not too large that the engine doesn;t produce enough to get it on boost. Thats the biggest probelm is sizingthe turbo to suit the engine characteristics, btu a T3 is most common;

What else is needed:
Intercooler; connecting pipework; oil feed to and form the turbo; a method to increase fueling for on boost running; a method to alter the ignition curve for on boost running; over boost cutoff switch just in case of too much boost - you dont; want it holking pistons or blowing it apart (I've done this and it ain;t nice   ); Uprated clucth - something like a sachs that will handle lots of lbft - Turbo cars it will do over 200lbft when boosted from something like 300RPM onwards. so it has to be capable of handling this all the time.
Theres bound ot be some other littl ebits n bobs you need, but most of the expensive and important stuff is in the above. If naything else springs to mind I'll pop it up here .

hope this helps..  :wink:

Thought I'd throw in my two cents as well…

If you are turbo-ing an engine, matching the turbo correctly to the engine is a fairly complex process. (I did this at uni  :read: and we spent a couple of weeks worth of lectures on turbocharging and matching turbos).

You need to analyse the pressure, temperature, and flow of the incoming air for all turbine speeds, and then decide how to match this to the engine speed, and finally decide how to set up the fuelling to give the above conditions… Eeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuugggggggghhhhhh made for some very nasty exam questions!

Anyways, if I were you I'd keep the 2.0l naturally aspirated, and put it straight in, or source a 1.8T unit from a modern VW. Otherwise you might spend months and some serious wedge creating a turbo'd unit which may not work all that well…

Only my opinion though…  

N/A all the way baby!

I've just bought a new Stage 5 head from SP Performance…………
Gas flowed ported and polished. (Re-designed and re-shaped.)
Oversize valve seats
Re-cut and ground in valve seats
Biggest Valves possible
Inlet valve (41.55mm)
Exhaust valve (34.84mm)
New bronze valve guides
Solid lightweight competition followers, springs, platforms, shims and spring caps
Skimmed
 8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)

I've got my kent Gs2 cam to partner up with this.

I'm going to get my engine lightened and balanced at my local engine specialist. Can't wait to get all the components ready, get her built and dropped in.

Next on my shopping list for the engine………
kent vernier pulley,
ashley 4 branch manifold,
red samco hoses,
and red paint for the block.
Does any one know if a G60 rocker cover will fit my 1.8 8v head? :dontknow:

As soon as all the parts arrive I'll get cracking and take some pics to post on here.

Roll on 200+bhp per tonne! :wink:

Your not thinking of still turbo'ing the motor kins ???
Reason I ask is that you've skimmed the head, whacked in the biggest vlaves possible and running a cam. Not the best combination for a turbo imo  :wink:

Did some serious research into he turbo route. I came to the conclusion it would not econimically viable!….. That and I could not be ar$ed!

N/a all the way……

Kins - is this new head of yours crossflow? Or does it have the inlet and exhaust manifolds on the same side of the engine?

Just curious :scratch: as I'm planning to improve my engine at some stage, and an uprated head is the obvious starting point…

It's standard layout not cross flow…… going to make a fancy heatshield….. god darn heatsoak"

turbtechnicsMK1 said

Your not thinking of still turbo'ing the motor kins ???
Reason I ask is that you've skimmed the head, whacked in the biggest vlaves possible and running a cam. Not the best combination for a turbo imo  :wink:

Wouldnt he then need to run low compression pistons or bodge buy using a thick gasket or stacked gaskets? Then have the hassle of plumming in all the intercooler and pipes, then have the hassle of running a electronically mapped dizzy with ECU to control the advance? Then fanny about with running different levels of boost then wanting more then turning the boost up then blowing it up.

Naaaaa mate, go the Eaton supercharger route if youre going to go to all that trouble. Ok its alot more hassle to mount but then you'll  have a constant, even, amount of boost *thoughout* the rev range, so in a light MK1 you'll be able to put it down to the tarmac better, quicker and more efficiantly than a turbo. Theres no hassle of having a bleed valve or some kind of solenoid to control boost, just the size of your pulley.

Best thing to do if youre going to run forced induction is to find a KR engine. Use the KR crank, Audi S2 pistons and rods. This will give you a bullet proof, low compression, bottom half.

If you're going to run k-jet use the KR head, if you're going to run EFI use an ABF head with S2 valves.

The k-jet set up is easier but less powerfull but the EFI route can give you reliable power with a T26 turbo (straight out of an RS2).

I've yet to see figures, from a reliable source, for an Eaton chargered engine but so i've heard of a couple of examples, Stateside, that have matched that power.

I'm doing alot of research on the Eaton charger at the moment but it's getting my vote, by a nats pube, over a turbo.

Hey up Mr V nice to hear from you. I've chickened out on the home made forced induction route. I had thought about the supercharged route, but how much is a kit???? I bet it's mega bucks. :dontknow:

I think I'm going to keep it naturally aspirated for the mo, stick with tuned 2.0 audi 8v as it's the easiest and cheapest route .

If I seek more power then I'll go the whole hog and 1.8t it! 8)

So are you going for a supercharged KR engine Mr V?

Mr V - it's gotta be supercharged all the way!!!

Quicker response, really nice noise, and not so much faffing about…

Worth it just to hear the supercharger skip as you come off the revs, and then the backfire as all the fuel burns away in the exhaust   

lol!!

I like the sound of having a supercharged engine and i feel its the way to go - for me! Remeber its each to their own. There's a fella local to me whos built a 2.1 16V G60 and even though he hasnt had it mapped yet, he wants to chuck the G60 and go the turbo route!! I havent had the opportunity to tell him he's mad yet!!

If you're after ultimate power then a turbo is for you, as i mentioned in my previous post, a T26 turbo can be used but it's the biggest you can go without having issues with space. T26 off a RS2!! A T3 turbo, probably 1/2 the size of a T26(!!), can give 300bhp!! But if you go the Eaton route, a Cooper S charger will be at its limit at about 275bhpish. But keep in mind its *275*bhp!! We'll be approching Evo8 power in a car that weighs about 1/2 of an Evo!

kins , as you know, i've only just finished putting my 2.0 together. I've done my running-in miles but, as always, i would like more. The only issues with building a more powerfull engine is my insurance!!! I've managed to find a KR and would like to keep it k-jet so im keeping the KR head but thats as far as i've gone because the feckin body is rotting like a b!tch and desperatly needs a re-spray soon!

hey guys, i know this is a pretty old topic, but still.
 kins……. did you go ahead with your conversion in the end? if so have you got any pics, hints, tips as im gunna go down the same route!!

 cheers
Jon-Boy

I've got all the bits (well nearly 4 branch manifold and samco hoses still needed) just need to find the time to drop the lump in…..

I will post pics as soon as work progresses….. watch this space

cool, which head/cam did you go for in the end?
sorry you probably have said already!?!?!

cheers

I've just bought a new Stage 5 head from SP Performance…………
Gas flowed ported and polished. (Re-designed and re-shaped.)
Oversize valve seats
Re-cut and ground in valve seats
Biggest Valves possible
Inlet valve (41.55mm)
Exhaust valve (34.84mm)
New bronze valve guides
Solid lightweight competition followers, springs, platforms, shims and spring caps
Skimmed
            

I've got my kent Gs2 cam to partner up with this.  

ha ha so i see!
 sorry for that.
 what made you go for that head over a tsr type pack?
cheers

Have you seen how much the equivalent (lesser specced) TSR head is????  8O

oh yeh!!!! 8O
 have these sp performance guys got a web site at all? i keep finding references to them online but no official site yet.
 cheers Jon

They used to have a website on geosities I think. But they do lot of business through ebay (user name flowpassagecontrol.)

this is the link to their ebay shop

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/MODIFIED-PERFORMANCE-CYLINDER-HEADS_W0QQssPageNameZVIStoreHeaderLinksQQtZkm?

I've a contact number I can fwd you failing that.