How much for an engine?

So thinking of an engine swap, wanted to see if:

- you think it's a good idea? 
- if so, how much would you put a 1.8 working good condition engine up for? (To offset the cost of the new engine)
- who you recommend? I see crazy quiffs popping up on here quite a bit

Thanks and happy…. errr what day are we again?

Ps it's a 1990 1.8 cab 

Why is the first question?

What do you want?

A bit more power? then tune it with twin carbs and an exhaust. You'll gain around 30bhp at least and make a nice noise. Add a bit of head work and a GTI cam and you'll see another 10hp or so.

A 16v engine will see between 150 and 170 bhp depending on engine internals and then it can be tuned more.

Or go small block and tune it and return the Golf to it's original lightweight nimbleness. I see 146bhp out of my 1400 16v on bike carbs.

Monster power? 1.8t or V5. More work and more expense.

As for the price of a 1.8 boat anchor? Around £50 - £100 depending on specs, mileage, history etc,. Or if no-one near needs one at the time then scrap value only.

Alot depends on knowledge,, budget, knowledge, how many beer tokens you have to spare and your working facilities.

Driveway? A bit of tuning
Garage? Could do engine swap or stay dry whlst fitting lovely tuning products.
Massive workshop with lifts and being surrounded by fabricators and wiring guru's? Space frame it over an LS3 V8  

Hope I've confuddled you even more than you were before  

Ian

Wow thanks for the long and confuddling reply lol 

Ok, I'll try and attempt your list:

- why. Really for all aspects, more power, more reliable and a little more future proofed 

- carbs. Toyed with this idea but couldn't really find a garage locally that could (or I trusted) to do it - or the cost? (30bhp probably doesn't make much of a difference?

- engine. If I was going to go through that expense and trouble  probably would go 1.8t or similar. Do you lose money on resale by switching away from the original engine? (Not that I intend on selling it)

- don't have the ability to do a job as big as that, also with a demanding job and a toddler, nor the time either 

Is your car fuel injection or carb?

Getting someone to do a engine swop to a 1.8 turbo isn't cheap, I think I've seen places advertise it for £5000 ish.

If putting in more power you need to think about brakes as well.

You won't be making a profit if you get the work done and sell the car.

I recon a car with the original engine in is worth more than something with a later engine fitted in.

Well for 5k that's not happening then, as you said with that cost you'd never recoup it in the sale.

Changing away from the original engine was a concern on the resale if I ever decided to get rid.

Twin carbs it is as borednow suggested.

Now just to find a garage in London that's capable. 

Firstly if you change or mess with the engine you won't see any of your expenditure back in fact you will probably devalue the whole car.

Also you've got a Cabrio so why on earth would someone want to faster?

The car even the none GTI's are capable of +100 miles an hour.
Have you ever driven yours at 100 miles an hour with the top down?

Well I have on an Autobahn and even with the best XL full wind deflector that money can buy it's not an enjoyable experience.
I did it for 10 miles just to see what it felt like, since then I know the fastest I should go and still enjoy it while getting to where I want to be in good time with the top down on a motorway is 75/80.

Even my wife is happy with that because her long hair doesn't get blown around!


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I disagree completely about engine changing affecting the value.

My mk2 made me money after converting it to 20vt… Not many people would have purchased a 1.6 carb auto mk2 golf.

It raised it's value substantially.

Give me a mint old car with a modern engine any day over the tired old under powered lump… And like you said earlier, you ain't intending on selling it, so what does it matter how much you throw at it?

 

Roach said

I disagree completely about engine changing affecting the value.

My mk2 made me money after converting it to 20vt… Not many people would have purchased a 1.6 carb auto mk2 golf.

It raised it's value substantially.

Give me a mint old car with a modern engine any day over the tired old under powered lump… And like you said earlier, you ain't intending on selling it, so what does it matter how much you throw at it?

 

I agree.

Depends on the car,

low mileage, full history, completely standard, mint - leave well alone as the values in it's originality. As long as it's not a mk2 of course  

Complete rusty heap with knackered interior and rust and rot - do as you will!

Unless you're doing it yourself though you'll never get the money back you put in, I don't reckon.

And it depends if you can afford to pay someone. I never could hence why I now know a spanner from a screwdriver. Mostly.    When using a screw driver you need a hammer in order to hit things, with a spanner you can hit things directly.  

If you want to leave it to the winter to do a conversion  you could drop it down to me in Cornwall and I'll sort you out over the winter. First customer of Borednow Customs   

Ian

Yes true, car and competence dependant. 

I'd still pay more for a totally mint Mk1 gti with a modern engine, over a boggo standard one…. but that's just me.

Roach said

I disagree completely about engine changing affecting the value.

My mk2 made me money after converting it to 20vt… Not many people would have purchased a 1.6 carb auto mk2 golf.

It raised it's value substantially.

Give me a mint old car with a modern engine any day over the tired old under powered lump… And like you said earlier, you ain't intending on selling it, so what does it matter how much you throw at it?

 

Roach

With all due respect my friend a Mk2 is a completely different animal in a different market. Also yes a better engine, brakes and suspension are always welcome additions especially on a mk1 but that's not the point I was making and you've taken us into a slightly different area.

I've been studying the Mk1 market throughout Europe for the past 8 years. I spend a lot of my spare time finding Mk1's and noting details and values.
I've run the GAP competition since 2013 where we've seen about 100 MK1's come up for sale ranging from £500 to £35,000.

So with that knowledge and experience behind me I have to say that in the main if someone takes a completely standard Mk1 and makes serious modifications to it like a different engine, suspension, seats, color change etc…
They will not see the man hours and costs incurred back!

For example I know of a Mk1 Golf GTI that had £30,000 of Mod's done to it. All the bills are cataloged. It something to see ever nut and bolt underneath was gold plated!

It was one of our cars in GAP season 2 and was up for sale for £40,000.
Well that was back in 2015 and I bet you now if you offered the bloke £18,000 he'd take your hand off. The last time he advertised it in October last year it was up for £20,000.

I've drifted off subject here but it's for a good cause because we have a large number of young members joined the club recently that will read this so let's not give them the illusion that they will get their hard earned money back because I don't believe they will 90% of the time

Mod it by all means as I have mine and I've spent a fair bit but firstly to make it my mk1 and improve it and secondly it will only take me a day to put it back to original!

Isn't it great that in a free and democratic society we can get so deep into something so simple and yet do no wrong!


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Can you give that to me in a nutshell, I've got the attention span of a 5 year old..  

Roach

Original = good

Modded = good

Original = £££££££

Modded = -£ and heartache.

 

Why the hell did I mod all of mine again?  

Ian

Roach said

Can you give that to me in a nutshell, I've got the attention span of a 5 year old..  

Oh brilliant answer, simple outstanding my friend!
That has left me helpless in my sailing boat without a breath of wind. I was up for that for a challenge, maybe someone else wants to pick up your baton!



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borednow said

Roach

Original = good

Modded = good

Original = £££££££

Modded = -£ and heartache.

 

Why the hell did I mod all of mine again?  

Ian

Brilliant thanks for that.

Is your car fuel injection (Gti) or carburettor?

I'm not a fan of fitting bike carbs to an engine, you will spend time and money getting them set up to get the best out of them and you will have to keep fiddling with them.

The problem with fitting carbs to the back of the engine where the inlet manifold is it's just above the exhaust manifold so the carbs get nothing but nice hot air flowing into them, to get the best performance you need nice cold air that is why VW have stuck a big tube from the the carb towards the front of the engine where the cold air is…

If your car is a carb you can fit a GTi cam shaft to give you a little more performance and a better exhaust manifold helps with the breathing of the engine.

I'm in the camp of if you want to go a lot faster car go and buy a faster car, plenty of VW/Audi out there with the 20v turbo engine fitted for not much money…..

Just my thoughts…  .


More info on engine swop ideas….

https://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/index.php?page=cedi&type=misc&id=26


 

What a great read this morning, thanks everyone for the input. 

The engines in fairly good condition and not long ago was rebuilt. It's got 89k on the clock. So with that in mind, the cost of a conversion (if it is 5k) and def not making That back it's probably worth parking the idea and looking at cams and carbs. 

Or just leave it alone and just chug along. 

Will an exhaust make it sound throaty enough or just a noisy boy racer? 

on the subject of modifying golfs for profit, there was a 1979 series 1 gti on facebook , berg cup arches, stripped interior, roll cage, 16v on carbs, bucket seats etc. that they struggled to sell for £6k. if it was original it would be worth double that and sell easily

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=series%201%20golf&ref=eyJzaWQiOiIwLjEwOTQ1Mzk1Njk3MjI5NDMyIiwicXMiOiJKVFZDSlRJeWMyVnlhV1Z6SlRJd01TVXlNR2R2YkdZbE1qSWxOVVEiLCJndiI6ImJlZTA5ZjkzZmE3MzJjZmE1OWExY2I2ZDlmNDUwZDM4OTI0MjRlNDkiLCJlbnRfaWRzIjpbXSwiYnNpZCI6ImJjNjFkYjA5NWEwYzgxOTA4YjZjYjNmMzhjYjFlODEyIn0

although saying that i wouldnt have one with a standard engine, speed limit is 70 but there is no limit on how fast you can get there. a 16v on carbs shouldnt cost too much and see 150bhp  there was a complete conversion for sale with twin webbers, both manifolds, ecu, engine mounts etc for £600

I think the 16v conversion is still for sale

Mk1 Golf Parts For Sale

On exhausts, if you do your homework you can get yourself a full end to end chrome exhaust system with a sound to suit your tastes!

Maybe never have to change it in the time you own the car if it is a top quality one but do check guarantee they give before buying in writing!


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