1.6 GTI Gearbox, replace / rebuild?
Posted
#945483
(In Topic #111511)
Settling In
1.6 GTI Gearbox, replace / rebuild?
The syncro's in my 1st and 2nd gear is worn.
I am wondering if it would be best to rebuild or replace.
As i am running it on 13" i would really like a longer 5th gear.
Can anyone tell me what the original 1.6 GTI Gearbox was? (5 Speed)
Where can i find the type plate on my gearbox. I am assuming it is the original as the rest of the car is original.
What do i really need to buy if i want to rebuild it? I am trying to figure out what would be cheapest.
Is it possible to fit a eg. Diesel 5th gear? Or is there a gearbox that would suit me better? I would really a 5th gear that gives me the opportunity of cruising at around 70mph without getting over 4000rpm (as i am now…)
Which gearboxes fit? And what cars do i have to look for at the junkyard?
Posted
MOTY 2013
have a read on brokes site:
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Posted
Settling In
Just bought a mk 1 1600gti 1980' with exactly the same symptons, not imminent but on the box is on its way!! Do I read right that the mk 2 1600 box is the same as the mk 1 gti? Been trying to source a mk 1 box off fleabay but as yet have had no luck
Googled a place that supplies a recon box on an exchange basis for ?500, but that is out of the question seen as the cars only worth two of them!!
cheers
rob
Posted
MOTY 2013
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Posted
Settling In
I should measure my innerflange to find out if it is 90 or 100mm as it is possible that i have late spec 100mm?
If i have 90mm i have to find a 1.6GTI box, a Golf 2 1.6 (with wrong ratio) or rebuild my own.
If i have 100mm i can use a Golf 2 and Golf 2 Boxes
How do i make a 90mm shaft 100mm? Is it replacement or do i have to find a workshop that can weld a 90mm and a 100mm together?
Posted
MOTY 2013
020 Flange
other option is to fit 100mm shafdts from a late mk1 cab/rocco, then you can use any 100mm flange box, providing the studs/.holes are there for the MK1 rear mount:
020Mount
Hello my name is John and I'm a dub addict.
My wiring diagrams and other documents have moved here:
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Posted
Settling In
cheers
Posted
Local Hero
In terms of costs - work out the total cost of fitting a secondhand box (for example price secondhand + cost of fitting, or a nominal cost due to doing it yourself, etc). Then factor in a probability that you might have to do it all again, if you get a 'duff' secondhand spare. Then compare with the cost of fitting a freshly reconditioned box, which will have much less probability of being duff. In other words, depending on your own circumstances it might be better to buy a reconditioned box for peace of mind. Others might find it worthwhile taking a chance on a secondhand ?50 box.
Posted
MOTY 2013
I had a 4+e in my driver and I loved it for economy, but basically 5th was a cruise gear and thats all, I didnt have the torque to pull at all, could go quicker in 4th! Though this was a 1.6 driver, something beefier might manage better.
handy ratio calc here:
Gear Up!
also note that MK1 & 2 GTI boxes have a different final drive, whihc means different speedo gear is required.
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Posted
Settling In
Edit: My gearbox is an FF. Is that original?
Posted
MOTY 2013
Hello my name is John and I'm a dub addict.
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Posted
Settling In
Where do i go from now?
What would YOU fit?
And yes i am in to the cruising 5th gear as mentioned before.
Posted
MOTY 2013
basically, see what you can pick up thats good! you dont exactly have the luxury of choice for good gearboxes these days
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Posted
Local Hero
rubjonny said
FF or FD if you can find one, can fit a taller 5th easily if you like. otherwise MK2 GTI box, then either fit 100mm late cab driveshafts, or swap in late driver 90mm flanges
basically, see what you can pick up thats good! you dont exactly have the luxury of choice for good gearboxes these days
I don't understand why you're making the distinction between 1600 GTI box (with 3.89 FD) and Mk2 GTI box with 3.67 FD. There are plenty of 1800 Mk1 GTI boxes out there with 90mm flanges, 3.67FD and close ratio 5 speeds.
Posted
MOTY 2013
like i said before, MK2 gti has slightly taller ratios, but still pretty tight. 5th in particular is better for crusing. You'll note the OP has specifically said he wants better cruising
My main point is, go for whichever you can get thats in good nick! If you get a MK2 box you can still use it, simply by swapping flanges.
edit: my other point is even if you get a short ratio box with a short 5th, you can easily swap it for a taller one. Just trying to cover all the angles rather than saying 'the only box you can use is X' and therefore narrowing the options considerably.
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Posted
Local Hero
rubjonny said
read my posts then, you'll see why
like i said before, MK2 gti has slightly taller ratios, but still pretty tight. 5th in particular is better for crusing. You'll note the OP has specifically said he wants better cruising
My main point is, go for whichever you can get thats in good nick! If you get a MK2 box you can still use it, simply by swapping flanges.
edit: my other point is even if you get a short ratio box with a short 5th, you can easily swap it for a taller one. Just trying to cover all the angles rather than saying 'the only box you can use is X' and therefore narrowing the options considerably.
Mk1 Golf 1800 and Mk2 Golf 1800 have same ratios, so I thought? The only difference being Mk2s from 1985 and on have 100mm flanges. Later on they made a higher 2nd gear, simply to reach 60mph in 2nd and thus the 0-60 time was better. 16V boxes have a slightly LOWER 5th. You can't go by the years in the gear ratio guide, they're very inaccurate!
I simply answered the question on an "if I were you" basis, with experience of 1600 GTI, 1800 GTI and 4+E boxes in standard and modified Golfs and Sciroccos. 1800 box in a 1600 GTI will blunt its performance a little, and take away some of the feeling of it being sporty (IMHO).
Posted
MOTY 2013
I wouldnt say the MK2 box is really going to effect the 1600 performance that much, its only 2bhp less and revs better!
16v 5th is shorter than 8v yes, but there isnt a massive amount in it, I've had 8v and 16v box in my MK2 as well. Trouble with 16v box is you need a different friction disc and you have a limited choice of 5th gears to choose from, only MK3 2.0 8v ones fit it.
Like I said, what I'm trying to do is explain allthe possible options for gearboxes, plus what is required to get certain boxes to fit. What you need when gearbox shopping is options, they are all getting on a bit so if you can find a good tight one thats the one to go for.
Its all very well saying theres plenty 1800 MK1 boxes out there, if you cant actually find any close to you. What if he stumbles across a mint MK2 box, are you saying he should pass it up?
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Posted
Local Hero
The 1600 engine is more to do with top end power than low end torque, yes there's only 2bhp in it but there's a lot more than 2 torques in it!
16V box was only mentioned for completeness in discussing the range of close ratio boxes "out there".
Posted
MOTY 2013
MK3 GTI box has even taller ratios though still a bit 'sporty' (compared to say, a diesel box) again you need 16v pressure plate tho and a flange swap. Though MK3s seem to suffer badly from chipped reverse teeth, guess its all that extra weight!
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My wiring diagrams and other documents have moved here:
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Posted
Local Hero
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