K-jet pressure test results - help
Posted
Settled In
I had a day off today, and my new o-rings arrived yesterday, sun was shining, etc etc.
So I changed the small o-ring on the primary regulator and ran the tests again. No change on system or control pressures (still on the low end of acceptable), but residual pressure was much better - not dropping like a stone, but still not holding as long as it should. But I did see the effect of the accumulator - engine off the pressure drops and then rises again. I ran a test again on the incoming fuel and it held pressure for ages, confirming the NRV was OK. So, back to the PPR. I found a shim the right size and .45mm thick. I removed the PPR (for the second time today) and the larger o-ring fell out in 2 pieces! This o-ring was also very new. So I fitted a new one a size smaller, as well as the shim. Pump on, and system pressure has increased to 4.9 bar. Engine still a bit reluctant to start and run, I think it will need a tune as I have had to fiddle with the mixture and throttle adjuster. Eventually get it running and the WUR behaves perfectly, rising from 1.2 to 3.5 bar in less than 5 minutes. I notice that the engine takes longer to warm up to fan-on than before - I will take that as a good sign. Once it is nice and warm I switch off and pressure drops to 2.8 bar, and 10 minutes later it is still at 2.75 bar - woohoo. I start the engine again and it runs first time I have ordered some shims so I can increase the system pressure a bit more, plus copper washers as the fuel filter banjo is weeping slightly. After quite a few false dawns where I think I have sussed it, I finally have - and couldn't have done it without all the help and advice from members on here - plus some useful threads on sites like vwvortex and clubgti. For anyone that needs to change their PPR o-rings, the sizes are 3.68mm ID x 1.78mm CS for the tip and 6.78mm ID x 1.78mm CS at the other end - I used viton.
Hopefully this means some summer motoring at last (I have had the car 5 years).
Lee
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
MOTY 2013
Hello my name is John and I'm a dub addict.
My wiring diagrams and other documents have moved here:
VAG Documents & Downloads
You'll need to sign into google/gmail for the link to work! (its free!)
My wiring diagrams and other documents have moved here:
VAG Documents & Downloads
You'll need to sign into google/gmail for the link to work! (its free!)
Posted
Settled In
thanks again to all for the help and advice.
Lee
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Local Hero
I managed to clean my WUR filter out without having to remove them. Although I did strip it down to the diaphragm and then blew it with compressed air in the opposite direction to the fuel flow to clear it and then put it in my ultrasonic cleaner for an hour. I'll swap it back onto the car at some point just to check it. I'll know I have a good spare then.
I also stripped out the metering head with the sticking plunger and ultrasonic cleaned all of that while it was in bits. I never had any broken O rings so I've just reassembled it and the plunger seems fine now. Again I'll test it on the car it came off and if its OK then it can stay on as its the original one to the car. Fingers crossed!
Posted
Local Hero
I need to get the mixture right, it's running rich & smelling of fuel… but i'm not having much success in finding a garage with somebody capable to do a tune without a plug in diagnostic answer to most things!!!
Cheers.
Posted
Settled In
Deanandubya - I haven't got photos of the key moments, but I will post links to other photos and articles I used that will show what I did (lots of googling while I was researching the problems):
WUR stripdown step-by-step: http://ferrari400parts.com/Warmupregulatorrepair.php
Fuel distributor: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/CleaningFuelDistributor.pdf
Primary Pressure Regulator: http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/golf-mk1/images/golf-mk1-783.png
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/fuel-prim-pressure-reg-plun.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/620037-cis-pressure-regulator-pics.html
Fuel delivery test: http://www.mk1dubz.com/pdf/Testinjectors.pdf (I used plastic water bottles and duct tape, and relay 17 instead of making a jumper and switch)
Fuel pressure testing: http://www.mikegabriel.net/vw/badhabitrabbit/fpressure.html and Rubjonny's guide on the Mk2 forum
This old article was useful as well: http://mastertechmag.com/pdf/1988/10oct/198810IS_KJetricks2.pdf
I hope this helps - if you need more, let me know.
Lee
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Settled In
If your system pressure is low - or if your WUR isn't working properly, it won't run right. On mine, the WUR was completely blocked, so the control pressure was the same as the system pressure - 4.5 bar of pressure pushing down on the plunger, which makes it harder for the plunger to lift and let fuel to the injectors. Cold starting was a real nightmare. I guess if your WUR is partially blocked, control pressure would be higher than it should, which could be compensated by giving it a bit of extra throttle. The electrical tests don't tell you anything about whether the WUR is controlling pressure properly - unfortunately only a set of pressure gauges can do that. If it is just in need of a tune (like mine is), then you need an exhaust gas tester (I am hoping to borrow one from a mechanic friend). Perhaps get it tuned first, and if that doesn't do it, it will have to be the pressure tests.
Does that help?
Lee
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Settled In
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Settled In
Ok, yes, relief valve is another name for the PPR. I measured the shim size as follows:
the baseplate that the big spring pushes against is 9.9mm x 5.3mm. I measured the big spring as 7.68mm x 5.5mm. So the shims need to have an ID bigger than 5.3mm, and an OD no bigger than 9.9mm. I had one correct sized shim, so I bought these: http://demonpowerproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=164&products_id=5828 and fitted them between the baseplate and the correct sized shim. Having a range of thicknesses is helpful for making quite small adjustments. The supplier was really quick.
O-rings - ebay or polymax.co.uk (but they have quite a large minimum order) - get viton rather than nitrile if possible, it is supposed to be better when used with petrol.
Copper washers - I bought a selection pack from ebay, but some of the vw copper washers seem to be non-standard sizes - the new washers I fitted to the fuel filter were a bigger OD than original, but still gave a good seal. To be honest, I have only replaced the copper washers on the fuel filter joint becuase I couldn't stop it weeping - I have reused existing everywhere else, and had no leaks.
Let me know how you get on.
Lee
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Settled In
hope all goes well
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Local Hero
Last edit: by Deandubya
Posted
Settled In
When undoing the braided hoses watch out for those copper washers - they love to drop off the banjo bolts into the depths of the engine bay
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Settled In
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Local Hero
Safe to say i think this is where my problem lies!!! will still put new o'rings on the PPR too.
Quite disturbing how the WUR has got like this! Cleaned the outside as much as i could. Undid the bolts & opened it up, pretty straight forward really… The spring & plate, gave this a clean, the bolt for the heater element no prob, took this off & cleaned up. just really careful when i came to the base plate screws x4, put some Plus gas on these to settle for a bit, a bit of pressure & they unscrewed fine… very fine thread to these, carefully took the 'plate' off & it was a mirror type effect on the opposite side, cleaned this with carb/inj cleaner & cloth. also the plate 'attached' at the base & around it. Got a wire brush on the screws 'heads', nuts & washers. Also had a go at the filters as much as i could… The rubber seal in between the WUR housing itself is corroded so not worth treating, will get a new rubber strip for this.. So gave the main part of the WUR a good detailed clean, just need to do the back plate tonight.. (couldn't finish, the wife called about 9ish otherwise i would continue until it's done..)
Even though i tested the WUR electrically it just goes to show that 'you can't judge a book by it's cover'…
Below is one part finished, looks a damn sight better
Last edit: by Deandubya
Posted
Settled In
There are rebuild kits available from here http://www.ferrari400parts.com/catalog/ and I think on ebay.
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
Local Hero
Posted
Settled In
1986 GTI Cabriolet ("dambuster")
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
2000 Mk4 Cabriolet Avantgarde (bought for the mrs)
2001 Zafira 1.8
Posted
MOTY 2013
Hello my name is John and I'm a dub addict.
My wiring diagrams and other documents have moved here:
VAG Documents & Downloads
You'll need to sign into google/gmail for the link to work! (its free!)
My wiring diagrams and other documents have moved here:
VAG Documents & Downloads
You'll need to sign into google/gmail for the link to work! (its free!)
Posted
Local Hero
Posted
Local Hero
So, after taking it for a spin for about 10-15 miles i got back onto my drive… as it was idling it was going low, normal, low, normal & so on, this happened as well when the fan came on… so i think as it's running good, if you like, it needs a tune as it was running rich before so i'll get it in in about a week or 2.
If you think otherwise with the idle issue let me know..
apart from that i'm really happy how it's running - as the old saying went 'pocket rocket' Yesterday (Sunday) had a drive in the morning, driving crisp & sounding sweet… MPG massively improved as well… mid 30's no probs.. went for a blast last night too… took my time, even though the car felt like it wanted to have a play… nice clean drive, after 5 minutes the MFA was showing 44MPG!!! unreal… gave it a run on duals as well, pulled on my drive & had a reading of 38.1MPG! with the top down… really happy how it's progressed & the result, get it booked in for a tune next week & that should be the engine sorted for a long long time!!! Sounds how an old skool GTI should…
Cheers to everyone who helped & advised (also the Bentley & Haynes manuals lol)
Last edit: by Deandubya
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