One rule for them another for us.......
Posted
Old Timer
One rule for them another for us.......
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Posted
Settled In
one rule
TC
Posted
Local Hero
One rule for them!
Posted
Life Member
They just can't let it lie (as Vic Reeves said in 1991!!)
I have a feeling that we'll be back on this debate in the coming weeks… as we were at NWM7. We didnt even get an agreement between 4 of us!!!
Dano
Posted
Local Hero
Lets remember Mark Milton is being tried for 5 counts of speeding and one of dangerous driving. His defence is that the speeding offence is exempted because of his "police purpose", which was "training", which was "familiarising himself with the vehicles capabilities". Is it not a simple issue to determine that he was doing a "police purpose", since other police officers gave evidence both for the prosecution and the defence. So its split opinion even within the ranks. He feels he can claim and prove 'police purpose' in legal terms because at the time, there was a lack of procedures within the training which would have defined whether what he did was part of his training or not.
The other charge, of 'dangerous driving' is much harder to make stick (speeding is an absolute offence - if you're proven to speed, and don't have an exemption - thats it). They need to prove that the element of speed (and other aspects of his driving) were poor enough to be dangerous, over and above careless, etc.
He was originally cleared, then it went to court of appeal, and they have asked it be retried at Magistrates Court (they could have affirmed or overturned the original vertict). The reasons were, that some of the police evidence given (remember, police witnesses gave evidence both for and against Mark) was taken into account based on the seniority/bearing of those giving the evidence, to a particular judge. The court of appeal felt that some of this evidence was not relevant to the case because the seniority/bearing of the officers was overstated in the first trial. So its not a simple case and there are a number of complex issues in law here.
Also, in strict legalese, it does not form case law because case law is determined by court rulings which are subsequently affirmed or overturned by court of appeal.
So, if you're going to contribute to this thread, make sure you get the facts right and don't just make emotional outbursts!
Posted
Old Timer
i suppose it depends on how the copper is feeling that day :dontknow:
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Posted
Local Hero
Paulc
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Posted
Old Timer
And the problem with the police case is that this guy took it on himself to go out for a blast in the car. There was no formal training / permission / etc, in place.
Posted
Old Timer
Police drivers before taking the vehicle out have to check for damage, mileage and check all lights and horns are in working order befor taking the vehicle out. once on the road a brake check is carried out at 30 mph.
you then patrol to the speed limits. Unless you are on a call (blue lights) or making progress within limits
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Posted
Local Hero
jacob said
you then patrol to the speed limits. Unless you are on a call (blue lights) or making progress within limits
Not completely true, the law only says "police purpose" and it can apply to a marked or unmarked car, with or without blue lights and/or 2 tones. It even applies (there is case law for it) to police officers driving to work in their own cars!
Posted
Settled In
Mr_GTI said
afew years back when i bought my impreza i went through a stage of being pulled over by the law 2 or 3 times a week
Thats because you're as dodgy as hell though :wink:
I know a couple of traffic guys and they seem to be fine and honest. Apparently the ones to watch out for are regular coppers with aspirations to be traffic.
Posted
Life Member
If he hadn't driven it before then personally I can see his point. I DON'T agree with the high speeds around the 30 limits but on a motorway at 2am where there arent any pedestrians then I don't have a problem with it.
You have got to remember that the car is a tool of his job. He needs to be able to drive it.. SAFELY. Can you imagine operating a crane, a lathe, a JCB or any piece of machinery without trying it out first?
The fact that he is a traffic officer should say that he is used to travelling at high speeds on a regular basis and he trained to do so and I would expect him to be able to control his adrenaline properly.
If there wasn't policy in place as to the guidance of 'testing'cars that was a Force issue. I'm sure that it has been changed now!!
Dan
Posted
Local Hero
Burgle his house, and then wait for him to phone the police to report the incident, only to be told that "there's nothing they can do"…
That would put the issue of "us and them" nicely into perspective for him :twisted:
Rant over…
Posted
Old Timer
stew72 said
I know a couple of traffic guys and they seem to be fine and honest. Apparently the ones to watch out for are regular coppers with aspirations to be traffic.
Since i've being working as a recovery driver the police i normaly meet have all been very friendly and courtious towards me.
On a different case Friday 2 weeks back I got pulled over for speeding and turning right at a roundabout from starting off in the inside lane - the copper followed me for about 5 miles with out me noticing from a main A road nearly all the way to my house…..I fully expected to get a fine and some points as I was clearly in the wrong but after a bit of a telling off from the officer and a chat he let me go with out even a producer I was amazed 8O
I thought it was my lucky night so I went and bought a lottery ticket - didn't win though
Posted
Life Member
Everyone thinks that they're a right bunch of t**ts but they're only doing a job. imagine if there werent any… there would be chaos.
At the end of the day, if you speed and get caught who's to blame… us. If you speed and get away with it then we're lucky!!
What I dont like are the ones who are cocky and get up themselves on the uniform. Believe me its usually the 'newer' constables who havent quite got to grips with their new job. The older ones seem to be more sensible and chilled out. Besides theres more to policing than speeders.
Oh and just an added bit of info… regular pandas dont have calibrated speedos so you'd be VERY unlucky to get done by one of those, it may explain why Mr GTI only got a talking to!!! Traffic/ ARV/ and maybe some Dog vehicle are calibrated and therefore more strict!!!
Dan
Posted
Local Hero
Dano said
What I dont like are the ones who are cocky and get up themselves on the uniform. Believe me its usually the 'newer' constables who havent quite got to grips with their new job.
Its weird how officious they become, when you get pulled over and the first thing you say is "Hang on, I recognise you. Weren't you in The Village People?"
Posted
Old Timer
Dano said
Oh and just an added bit of info… regular pandas dont have calibrated speedos so you'd be VERY unlucky to get done by one of those, it may explain why Mr GTI only got a talking to!!! Traffic/ ARV/ and maybe some Dog vehicle are calibrated and therefore more strict!!!
Dan
It was a (big) mpv VW thing it must have been a vr6 as it soon caught up with me down the country lanes, He was on his own, but like you said if your caught you've only got your self to blame and I was fully expecting to get a ticket.
It would be a funny old place with out them. Most of my hates come from the goverment not the police - they are just enforcing the sometimes stupid rules we have in place?
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